WHS and par/bogey comps

[KenL]

Apologies if this has been asked before. Bogey comp today, scores being processed and results will appear on SGU app overnight.

My question... Should scores for handicaps be based on the bogey comp rules (as I think they would have done in the past) or just on scratch/stableford?

If stableford, I would be disadvantaged by 2 strokes as I was -2 with bogey scoring but 32 points with Stableford.

Thanks for any insights.

 

[Wabinez]

I think bogey competitions have always been based on stableford for handicapping purposes…which to me is why bogey competitions should never be a qualifying competition.

it’s a matchplay comp….so there are a few things that go on that mean you may not aim to shoot your lowest score you can, so why should it go on your handicap record

 

[Voyager EMH]

Handicapping uses your adjusted gross score. This does not differ whether the comp is medal, stableford, bogey or vs par.

"Adjusted gross score" means a net double bogey limit per hole according to your course handicap.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

We had our annual one over the Easter weekend and definitely a qualifying event.

 

[KenL]

Thanks for the replies.
My hcp has been adjusted as you have all said.
I agree that this is a strange comp for hcp. A chap in my group picked up on every hole he lost and entered NR on those holes. He will have a much higher differential than he would have done in a conventional medal.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Thanks for the replies.
My hcp has been adjusted as you have all said.
I agree that this is a strange comp for hcp. A chap in my group picked up on every hole he lost and entered NR on those holes. He will have a much higher differential than he would have done in a conventional medal.

If you are entering a handicap qualifying score, whether that be a comp or general play, you should not pick-up until you have exceeded a net double bogey according to your course handicap.

I have said this many times to many players over the last year or so. It often goes in one ear and out the other. Some people seem to have an aversion to learning something new.

 

[KenL]

If you are entering a handicap qualifying score, whether that be a comp or general play, you should not pick-up until you have exceeded a net double bogey according to your course handicap.

I have said this many times to many players over the last year or so. It often goes in one ear and out the other. Some people seem to have an aversion to learning something new.

Yes, that's what I did but others didn't as they were told that the format of the comp was playing against the course.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If you are entering a handicap qualifying score, whether that be a comp or general play, you should not pick-up until you have exceeded a net double bogey according to your course handicap.

I have said this many times to many players over the last year or so. It often goes in one ear and out the other. Some people seem to have an aversion to learning something new.

We were getting my fourball to hole out as though it was a medal round even if the hole was lost. Only exception was one guy who went OOB and then we couldn't find the provisional despite only just rolling off the fairway so he put zero for that hole. Much more realistic score towards handicapping that way

 

[Wabinez]

If you are entering a handicap qualifying score, whether that be a comp or general play, you should not pick-up until you have exceeded a net double bogey according to your course handicap.

I have said this many times to many players over the last year or so. It often goes in one ear and out the other. Some people seem to have an aversion to learning something new.

it also works the other way.

say you get a shot on a par 4, and you hit the green in 2, but it’s 12ft, down the hill. In a bogey comp, you have 2 putts for the ‘win’, but in a medal…you are trying to make it for the lowest score possible.

bogey comps should be non-qualifiers, in my view

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, that's what I did but others didn't as they were told that the format of the comp was playing against the course.

It's like getting 95% in a singles stableford, players should not 'pick up' based upon 95% but on 100%

 

[doublebogey7]

it also works the other way.

say you get a shot on a par 4, and you hit the green in 2, but it’s 12ft, down the hill. In a bogey comp, you have 2 putts for the ‘win’, but in a medal…you are trying to make it for the lowest score possible.

bogey comps should be non-qualifiers, in my view

So only Medal & Stableford comps should be qualifiers in your view. Yet all comps are then subject to the handicap obtained from those narrow formats, which makes no sense to me. I take the opposite view, all formats where you play your own ball should be acceptable scores for handicapping purposes as it would give a more accurate view of your overall playing ability. It would have the added advantage of mitigating against pot order in those other formats.

 

[Wabinez]

So only Medal & Stableford comps should be qualifiers in your view. Yet all comps are then subject to the handicap obtained from those narrow formats, which makes no sense to me. I take the opposite view, all formats where you play your own ball should be acceptable scores for handicapping purposes as it would give a more accurate view of your overall playing ability. It would have the added advantage of mitigating against pot order in those other formats.

why should matchplay be included? You’re playing your own ball there….you’re going out to play the opponent, not the course in that….so can win holes with silly numbers. Why should that count in your record? Penalty strokes are also applied differently in matchplay, why should these be included?

 

[Region3]

We had one earlier this year. I vaguely remembered that under the old system there was a unique way of translating scores to handicap adjustments but couldn’t remember exactly what so I googled it.

I couldn’t find the old way but discovered the new way ie. No different to any other round. I emailed our competitions guy to suggest sending a bulk email out to members explaining that they should hole out as if it were a stableford, but they said there’s no way people would follow or even read the advice so they made it non qualifying instead.

I wish I hadn’t bothered.

 

[rosecott]

From CONGU:

In Bogey format, if a player fails to hole out once the hole is ‘lost’ they will be credited with a Nett Double Bogey. For handicap purposes, the player should continue to play until they either hole out or their Nett Score (with reference to their Course Handicap) will be higher than a Nett Double Bogey.

 

[Foxholer]

From CONGU:

In Bogey format, if a player fails to hole out once the hole is ‘lost’ they will be credited with a Nett Double Bogey. For handicap purposes, the player should continue to play until they either hole out or their Nett Score (with reference to their Course Handicap) will be higher than a Nett Double Bogey.

'Simples' really.
And the 'For handicap, treat it like a Stableford' simply works too.

 

[doublebogey7]

why should matchplay be included? You’re playing your own ball there….you’re going out to play the opponent, not the course in that….so can win holes with silly numbers. Why should that count in your record? Penalty strokes are also applied differently in matchplay, why should these be included?

Simply because you are using your handicap in that format, yet that handicap is derived entirely from a different game.

 

[Colin L]

Simply because you are using your handicap in that format, yet that handicap is derived entirely from a different game.

Your handicap index is calculated from stroke play. The handicap allowance adjusts the number of strokes you get for a particular format.

 

[rulefan]

So only Medal & Stableford comps should be qualifiers in your view. Yet all comps are then subject to the handicap obtained from those narrow formats, which makes no sense to me. I take the opposite view, all formats where you play your own ball should be acceptable scores for handicapping purposes as it would give a more accurate view of your overall playing ability. It would have the added advantage of mitigating against pot order in those other formats.

How exactly would you determine what score you would use for updating your handicap index after a match where your opponent conceded after 10 holes or where you conceded holes after your opponent scored in net eagles?

 

[doublebogey7]

How exactly would you determine what score you would use for updating your handicap index after a match where your opponent conceded after 10 holes or where you conceded holes after your opponent scored in net eagles?

There are procedures for that under WHS that are there not, which other countries have taken up. Although for me it would make more sense to use algorithms.

It would go someway in helping your dilemma in the thread "Handicap Limits"

 

[doublebogey7]

Your handicap index is calculated from stroke play. The handicap allowance adjusts the number of strokes you get for a particular format.

I know that, but I'm not sure how that helps in terms of ensuring that as far as possible your handicap matches your proven ability. More counting rounds, particularly in competition would help that.