Medal round , Picked up ball no NR ??

[Billysboots]

The use of the Stroke and Distance alternative rule is not allowed for handicap purposes . Guidance on the Rules of Handicapping Appendix J

I’m not referring to stroke and distance, but maximum score competitions.

 

[rulefan]

I believe Billy was referring to maximum score, which I thought could be used for acceptable scores.

It can but it has to be specified in the Terms of Competition in the same way as Stableford has to be. How would the players know when/if to stop scoring otherwise.

 

[rulefan]

Yes I understand that, my point is medal is not defined so the format does not have to be strokeplay (ignoring the fact that Stableford, Par/Bogey are forms of stroke play).

As 'medal' is not defined, the Rules of Golf do not recognise it. Nor do the Rules of Handicapping. So the Terms of Competition must make it clear which format is being played.
Although it is commonly used it is only a relatively new shorthand for normal strokeplay. It is not used universally even in England where it was introduced for club players who won the internal comp for the then EGU Gold Medal.

I have never seen or heard of a 'medal' being anything other than standard strokeplay which was the original EGU Medal format.

 

[Ethan]

We use it for all medal competitions with the exception of the club championship. The idea is primarily to maintain a decent pace of play, and to keep interested those who may have had a disastrous couple of holes. It’s been generally well received.

Given we only play medals from March to September, with the CC in August, it only applies to six competitions a year.

So they are all stablefords, then?

That rule advantages higher handicaps who are more likely to have a car crash hole.

 

[Billysboots]

So they are all stablefords, then?

That rule advantages higher handicaps who are more likely to have a car crash hole.

Effectively I suppose they are, yes. It removes the challenge of performing to the best of your ability over 18 holes, which is another reason I tend not to bother playing them.

 

[salfordlad]

So they are all stablefords, then?

That rule advantages higher handicaps who are more likely to have a car crash hole.

It shares the Stableford feature of voiding DQs, but is not necessarily the same net effect as Stableford. The maximum can be set at whatever level or formula the Committee wishes, so could be set above what clears out all Stableford points.

 

[doublebogey7]

It can but it has to be specified in the Terms of Competition in the same way as Stableford has to be. How would the players know when/if to stop scoring otherwise.

I understand that, but your earlier answers indicated that it was not possible for the maximum score to be applicable. I was just trying, perhaps haphazardly, that it is possible that the OP was playing in such an event, but may have not realised it. My previous club had a monthly medal that every other month was played as a Stableford.

 

[doublebogey7]

So they are all stablefords, then?

That rule advantages higher handicaps who are more likely to have a car crash hole.

Have you not been watching the 17th art Sawgrass this week

 

[Ethan]

Have you not been watching the 17th art Sawgrass this week

Have you seen any 19 handicappers with a weak slice playing it yet?

 

[rulefan]

I understand that, but your earlier answers indicated that it was not possible for the maximum score to be applicable. I was just trying, perhaps haphazardly, that it is possible that the OP was playing in such an event, but may have not realised it. My previous club had a monthly medal that every other month was played as a Stableford.

I think someone in your club is getting the terms confused. 'Medals' are (normal) strokeplay. Stablefords are stableford. See #23

 

[DickInShorts]

As 'medal' is not defined, the Rules of Golf do not recognise it. Nor do the Rules of Handicapping. So the Terms of Competition must make it clear which format is being played.
Although it is commonly used it is only a relatively new shorthand for normal strokeplay. It is not used universally even in England where it was introduced for club players who won the internal comp for the then EGU Gold Medal.

I have never seen or heard of a 'medal' being anything other than standard strokeplay which was the original EGU Medal format.

When I played at a club in Berkshire in the late 80s our monthly medal competitions were strokeplay for all except those in division 3 ( 19-28 iirc) who played it as Stableford. This was due to difficulty if 2nd hole where lots of players had cricket scores and as it was close to the clubhouse many of them walked in - or didn’t even bother to enter.
I recall winning one with a blob - which if I’d holed out was heading for double figures after finding the OOB several times!

I still have the medal I won!

 

[doublebogey7]

I think someone in your club is getting the terms confused. 'Medals' are (normal) strokeplay. Stablefords are stableford. See #23

Sorry but, unusually, I think you have got this wrong. Words matter when it comes to discussing the rules. As we have agreed the term Medal is not defined so clubs can define it however they like, as long as it is the terms of competition. My first posting on this subject was trying to point this out to you, I am not sure why you are digging yourself in on this one.

 

[rulefan]

Can clubs simply ignore the original/traditional meaning (ie the title used by the EGU) and assign the description to any form of golf it wishes.
If 'medal' doesn't mean a specific recognised format what does it mean? May a club call a 4BBB a 'medal'?

See these
https://forums.golfmonthly.com/threads/what-is-a-medal.37491/
https://www.golfdistillery.com/definitions/play-formats/stroke-medal/

This relates more specifically in part to the USA
https://www.liveabout.com/medal-play-in-golf-1560912

 

[Colin L]

Sorry but, unusually, I think you have got this wrong. Words matter when it comes to discussing the rules. As we have agreed the term Medal is not defined so clubs can define it however they like, as long as it is the terms of competition. My first posting on this subject was trying to point this out to you, I am not sure why you are digging yourself in on this one.

I'm digging in too.

Common parlance and general usage of words matters too and I am pretty certain that the use of "medal" to describe what is called " regular stroke play" in the Rules ( i.e. played in accordance with Rule 3.1a) is pretty well universal. In its guidelines for the Scottish Golf "Medal Finals", medal is used throughout without any gloss as to its meaning on the assumption that everyone understands that regular stroke play is being referred to. I don't suppose the writers every gave it a thought that it could be taken to mean anything else. If yours were a Scottish Club, none of your "Medal" winners would be eligible for these Medal finals which does seem a little odd.

https://scottishgolf.org/2021-scottish-medal-finals-club-guidelines/

 

[rulefan]

This from 2. Qualification makes it clear - *returning the lowest aggregate of 3 net scores

 

[nyckuk]

Thanks for all the replies and interesting debate
Its something we've never done before and will never do again .At our previous club it was 95% medal play so we were used to having the odd very high score or NR round , at this new club its the opposite 10% medal play .
If I see them again i'll question them on it .I'm thinking they've got confused and thought these rules could be used for friendly,general or comp play ??
Unless this particular comp they allowed these rules and we were unaware but i doubt it as the scores were being used for Handicapping on WHS .

 

[doublebogey7]

Thanks for all the replies and interesting debate
Its something we've never done before and will never do again .At our previous club it was 95% medal play so we were used to having the odd very high score or NR round , at this new club its the opposite 10% medal play .
If I see them again i'll question them on it .I'm thinking they've got confused and thought these rules could be used for friendly,general or comp play ??
Unless this particular comp they allowed these rules and we were unaware but i doubt it as the scores were being used for Handicapping on WHS .

No reason that maximum score cannot be used for handicapping as far as I know.

 

[rulefan]

No reason that maximum score cannot be used for handicapping as far as I know.

It is specifically authorized when played in an organised individual competition. Rule 2.1a

 

[rosecott]

No reason that maximum score cannot be used for handicapping as far as I know.

Provided the maximum is set at 5 over par or higher.

 

[doublebogey7]

Provided the maximum is set at 5 over par or higher.

Can see the logic, though would argue 4 over should be the minimum, but does it say that in the Rules of Handicapping.