The future of golf clubs ??

[fundy]

Very good post Rich.

I think that many threads on this forum have two sides of an argument, both of which can be attributed to a certain type of golfer. At it's most simplistic, it is probably just those new to golf and those who have played for a long time.


My view is that Hayling and Blackmoor have it right along with lots of other clubs. I would go as far to say that a club with a full-time computer booking system is probably one that I would not join.

Interview questions:

Is there a joining fee?
Does the club supply towels?
Can I play the course accompanied by my dog?
Do you run a computerised booking system?

If it is three yes's followed by a no then you are probably on pretty hallowed golfing turf!

no questions about the barmaids or yorkshire puds Snelly, your standards must be dropping lol

 

[Snelly]

So you're saying it's the older golfer who is stuck in his ways, versus newer more modern golfer who appreciates the world has changed?

(tongue in cheek, but that sounds similar to what you are saying, to a degree?)

That is one way of looking at it, albeit a completely incorrect one.

Change is good but not always. There's also plenty of sense in the phrase, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Snelly]

no questions about the barmaids or yorkshire puds Snelly, your standards must be dropping lol

Those are research topics, undertaken well in advance of any interview stage. See also; wine list, shower quality, dress code and average speed of general play.

Joking aside, I would not join a club if rounds of golf encumbered by slow play were a possibility. No way.

The West Sussex GC is perfect for me but now I am in a position to join, it looks like we will be leaving the area which will be a great shame from a golfing perspective.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Change is good but not always. There's also plenty of sense in the phrase, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I completely agree, the only issue is who is defining whether it is broken or not.

As it happens, with tee booking system, I feel 99% of people will be happy with what they have. Our nature is to adapt to what is in place. That's why roll-ups work at places with and without booking systems, they have adapted to what is there.

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.

 

[Snelly]

I completely agree, the only issue is who is defining whether it is broken or not.

As it happens, with tee booking system, I feel 99% of people will be happy with what they have. Our nature is to adapt to what is in place. That's why roll-ups work at places with and without booking systems, they have adapted to what is there.

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.

You make a good point here but I would counter it by saying that most cliques in golf clubs are perceived rather than actual and if you are at the right club for you, that meets your needs, then I would be certain that the members that play in their swindles and fiddles would be very welcoming if a new member made some effort to integrate. And to your point again, this is like most situations in life. You get out what you put in.

 

[full_throttle]

not going to read through 100+ posts,

My club is a 9 hole course and it's only competition days that are by tee time. Members are advised on joining that Wed morning is reserved for senior members but any other time it's a turn up and play policy. It works well, even on the busiest days I haven't waited much more than 30 minutes.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

You make a good point here but I would counter it by saying that most cliques in golf clubs are perceived rather than actual and if you are at the right club for you, that meets your needs, then I would be certain that the members that play in their swindles and fiddles would be very welcoming if a new member made some effort to integrate. And to your point again, this is like most situations in life. You get out what you put in.

Very interesting, and not one I would disagree with at all. The issue could be why the perception exists though, as "perceptions become reality". If everyone thinks a clique exists, that pretty much means a clique exists, even if the group don't see that themselves. I guess, like you say, it comes down to being at the right club for you personally.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

We average between 175-200 playing the medal on a Sat Medal

Blimey....good luck with that, there are only 156 playing in the Open and they are teeing off from 6am!!

 

[Snelly]

Very interesting, and not one I would disagree with at all. The issue could be why the perception exists though, as "perceptions become reality". If everyone thinks a clique exists, that pretty much means a clique exists, even if the group don't see that themselves. I guess, like you say, it comes down to being at the right club for you personally.

The last point is the most crucial. I mentioned West Sussex a couple of posts earlier. I think it is just about perfect as golf clubs go. I really do - it is amazing. But I can say with certainty that there are plenty of regular contributors to this forum that would despise the place!

If you find the right club for your needs then you don't need to worry about what is wrong with other clubs - computer booking systems being a case in point.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.

I'm sure there is a little bit of poetic licence on here at times but I think I prefer a slightly cliquey rollup that takes a couple of games to feel integrated into over playing in the same 4ball every week because I'm forced to book a time 3 weeks in advance.

 

[Lanark_Golfer]

Blimey....good luck with that, there are only 156 playing in the Open and they are teeing off from 6am!!

Yip, that's why turn up and play wouldn't work at mine. Normal Sat Comp is booked out from 07:00 till 15:15 with 201 spaces available and is normally at least 90% full, Some of the bigger comps are slightly bigger fields also.

Looking forward, from next season we are introducing the option of playing the Monthly Sat Medal on the Friday too to ease the strain. Seperate CSS but one comp and sweep etc, were some rumblings about the weather being different each day but I would counter that with weather being just as different am to pm, pays your money takes your chance

 

[backwoodsman]

I completely agree, the only issue is who is defining whether it is broken or not.

As it happens, with tee booking system, I feel 99% of people will be happy with what they have. Our nature is to adapt to what is in place. That's why roll-ups work at places with and without booking systems, they have adapted to what is there.

I do disagree slightly with everyone claiming their own roll-up is completely inclusive and clique-free. That just doesn't happen all the time. I concede that some are, but I do feel, and have seen, natural cliques forming, and that's pervasive through nearly all parts of life, so I struggle to see how a golf club would be immune from that.

I think I can safely say that ours is clique free. At my interview (yes, we still have them) 5 years ago I was told "if you want to meet people, turn up for 'The Swindle'. And I did. The then past captain who told me that still plays in it. As do I. As does this years captain. And new members are still told the same. Hence locker room conversation varies from "where the hell were you last week" to "blimey, I thought you died years ago" to "Is this your first time? Don't worry, stick around we'll see you ok.

If it is cliquey, then 120 or so people is one hell of a clique - thats how many different people played in it last year.

 

[Smiffy]

Including women

Depends how fit they are

 

[SAPCOR1]

Very good post Rich.

I think that many threads on this forum have two sides of an argument, both of which can be attributed to a certain type of golfer. At it's most simplistic, it is probably just those new to golf and those who have played for a long time.


My view is that Hayling and Blackmoor have it right along with lots of other clubs. I would go as far to say that a club with a full-time computer booking system is probably one that I would not join.

Interview questions:

Is there a joining fee?
Does the club supply towels?
Can I play the course accompanied by my dog?
Do you run a computerised booking system?

If it is three yes's followed by a no then you are probably on pretty hallowed golfing turf!

Very simplistic depending on what you consider "new to golf"?

As for interview questions then personally I wouldn't go any further if there was an interview. As for dogs on the course then that would be the last thing I would want to see!

It is indeed finding somewhere that suits you and where you feel comfortable playing.

What I find amusing is some of the reasons for either being for or against an on-line booking system

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Very simplistic depending on what you consider "new to golf"?

As for interview questions then personally I wouldn't go any further if there was an interview. As for dogs on the course then that would be the last thing I would want to see!

It is indeed finding somewhere that suits you and where you feel comfortable playing.

What I find amusing is some of the reasons for either being for or against an on-line booking system

Couple of interesting points you make there. What do you have against interviews and dogs on the course?

And booking systems?

 

[SAPCOR1]

Couple of interesting points you make there. What do you have against interviews and dogs on the course?

And booking systems?

1. Interviews: I'm not going for a job and taking money, I'm looking to play golf and giving money (although I do accept that ANY interview should be two way)

2. It's a golf course not a place for dogs to bark, pee, poo and annoy. Just like when you go for a run or a bike ride and the dog owner says the dog is harmless and just being friendly. Yeah so you say....

3. Nothing! I prefer the on-line booking system. I just thought that some of the arguments on both side were amusing and got very personal in some cases.

 

[Snelly]

1. Interviews: I'm not going for a job and taking money, I'm looking to play golf and giving money (although I do accept that ANY interview should be two way)

2. It's a golf course not a place for dogs to bark, pee, poo and annoy. Just like when you go for a run or a bike ride and the dog owner says the dog is harmless and just being friendly. Yeah so you say....

3. Nothing! I prefer the on-line booking system. I just thought that some of the arguments on both side were amusing and got very personal in some cases.

I don't think you would like it at West Sussex very much. Or Sunningdale, West Hill, Hankley Common, The Berkshire, Swinley Forest or Royal Ashdown to name just a few that contravene your three points and regrettably for you, all of which are absolutely fantastic golf clubs.

Then again, I don't think I would want to be a member of your club either. Wherever that may be.

As I said, you just have to find what suits you and then enjoy it without worrying too much about what happens at other clubs as it is irrelevant.

 

[SAPCOR1]

B

I don't think you would like it at West Sussex very much. Or Sunningdale, West Hill, Hankley Common, The Berkshire, Swinley Forest or Royal Ashdown to name just a few that contravene your three points and regrettably for you, all of which are absolutely fantastic golf clubs.

Then again, I don't think I would want to be a member of your club either. Wherever that may be.

As I said, you just have to find what suits you and then enjoy it without worrying too much about what happens at other clubs as it is irrelevant.

Horses for courses, or dogs in your case.

 

[guest100718]

Lots of interesting views, there are still quite a few who like the idea of a traditional, even old fashioned members clubs and all that entails. There is no problem with that, but courses do need to realise that its not the 1950s any more and the reasons for joining a club have changed a lot.

 

[Snelly]

Lots of interesting views, there are still quite a few who like the idea of a traditional, even old fashioned members clubs and all that entails. There is no problem with that, but courses do need to realise that its not the 1950s any more and the reasons for joining a club have changed a lot.

This reminds me of a chat I had with the Steward at Swinley Forest. He tells a story of being asked how long he had been working there and answers, "nearly 30 years." The visitor then says, "Wow, you must have seen a lot of changes in that time?" The response............... "No, sir, none."

So I can't really agree with you Paddy. Some of the most successful, well-run, profitable and wonderful clubs in the UK have barely changed at all in decades. Their standards remain high in every facet and they are full, have waiting lists and don't need to change what they offer at all.

And I am not just talking about elite clubs either. I would suggest the following as fitting this description too: Blackmoor, Hindhead, Liphook, Piltdown, Hallamshire, Hayling, Tandridge, Betchworth, Hallowes, Pannal, Rotherham, Ilkley and Sand Moor.

All great clubs that are old-school, traditional environments that haven't changed in terms of what they offer and the ambience of the place in the time that I have played them and for some of these, that is a 30 year period.