Golf club memberships questions from a upcoming golfer

[Orikoru]

Thank you everyone who has commented and I agree with alot of you. I am considered a "younger" or intermediate golfer (I'm early 20s) so my rates for many courses I looked out are greatly reduced. I am also a full time student and I've even seen student memberships offered for greatly reduced fees also. I think the average cost for me would be between £350 and £500 ish for a year. I am planning on going at least once or twice a week. I do really like the idea of being able to just pop down and play a few holes whenever I feel. I also like the idea of being able to get some practice in and have seen a good few courses with practice greens for putting or short game. If anyone is from the tameside area and can give their thoughts on local clubs. (Ideally within a 25 min drive) I would greatly appreciate that. I have found it quite difficult to find particularly up-to-date reviews on most courses around here.

Can't believe you were even debating the value at this price, I'd snap their hand off for that. Green fees would have to be a fiver for that not to pay for itself.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Can't believe you were even debating the value at this price, I'd snap their hand off for that. Green fees would have to be a fiver for that not to pay for itself.

Absolute no brainer

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Do the IRS know?

They've got bigger fish to fry.

 

[Doh]

Have a look at Ashton-under-lyne it is a club I would consider if I lived in north Manchester.

 

[sunshine]

Usually, if you have to ask, you can't afford it.
Private club golf is not an egalitarian game in America.

As for a more informative answer, I'd have to make the same Google Search that you can.

I was the beneficiary of a special circumstance.
Otherwise, it would be unlikely that I could belong to a nice club.

First, my membership offers full access to all the amenities of our club EXCEPT weekend golf.
I have a senior membership with only weekday golf included in the dues.
I have to pay for myself as my own guest if I play on Saturday or Sunday or an American national holiday like Memorial Day, Labor Day, or 4th of July..

Second, mine is not a member owned club.
I didn't have to make a huge initial equity initiation fee as would have been the case with that kind of club.
Those initial initiations can exceed six figures.

Finally, as a laundromat for revenues accrued elsewhere through other "endeavors,"
my club doesn't actually have to make money for its "colorful" owner.
It just has to look profitable to the tax authorities.

I'm often critical of my own country, but this setup is America at her best.

I really enjoy your contributions Boomer, great to have a US perspective.

I had a little chuckle when you describe money laundering and corruption as America at her best.

 

[sunshine]

On the flipside, I was in California in August, and when I told one of the guys the joining fee for my place was £500, then £2500 a year, he laughed and said that was his combined membership per month! Blimey!

I hear stories like this about how expensive it is to join and then pay subscriptions at US clubs. But I don’t understand the model. Where does the money go? The owners must be making a massive profit.

I suppose newer courses need to pay off the huge cost incurred to build the venue but like the UK there are many courses that have been around a long time so cost base is largely maintenance.

 

[Bratty]

I hear stories like this about how expensive it is to join and then pay subscriptions at US clubs. But I don’t understand the model. Where does the money go? The owners must be making a massive profit.

I suppose newer courses need to pay off the huge cost incurred to build the venue but like the UK there are many courses that have been around a long time so cost base is largely maintenance.

Nor do I. I just didn't get a chance to ask them about it, partly because I felt talking about money and stuff like that having known them for 5 minutes wouldn't be appropriate.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I hear stories like this about how expensive it is to join and then pay subscriptions at US clubs. But I don’t understand the model. Where does the money go? The owners must be making a massive profit.

I suppose newer courses need to pay off the huge cost incurred to build the venue but like the UK there are many courses that have been around a long time so cost base is largely maintenance.

Sometimes you just have to pay whatever they ask to avoid BAD things happening to you.




I may have watched too many American TV shows.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I hear stories like this about how expensive it is to join and then pay subscriptions at US clubs. But I don’t understand the model. Where does the money go? The owners must be making a massive profit.

I suppose newer courses need to pay off the huge cost incurred to build the venue but like the UK there are many courses that have been around a long time so cost base is largely maintenance.

I'm not sure how golf courses can make much of a profit if any, regardless of fees.
The cost of finely manicuring 150 acres of land,
not merely as a pretty park,
but with the specific needs of a golf course--greens, tees, bunkers, etc,--
has to be astronomical.

Also, with the housing shortages and high real estate prices of today,
there are also developers ready to pay obscene money for the premium land.

I love golf, but economically, it worries me how it can exist at all.

 

[sunshine]

I'm not sure how golf courses can make much of a profit if any, regardless of fees.
The cost of finely manicuring 150 acres of land,
not merely as a pretty park,
but with the specific needs of a golf course--greens, tees, bunkers, etc,--
has to be astronomical.

Also, with the housing shortages and high real estate prices of today,
there are also developers ready to pay obscene money for the premium land.

I love golf, but economically, it worries me how it can exist at all.

I’m a member of a private club owned by the members, so we have full visibility of the running costs. The objective is to break even (well actually a small surplus to create a buffer). Annual fees are just shy of £3,000.

I struggle to understand how an American club can charge $3,000 per month. Costs are not 10x in the US.

 

[IanM]

I struggle to understand how an American club can charge $3,000 per month. Costs are not 10x in the US.

Maybe it's the same principle that American Tourists to the UK won't book a course charging less than £200

 

[Bratty]

@sunshine This thread on another site makes for really interesting reading on the subject

Why Is U.S. Golf So Expensive?

Why Is U.S. Golf So Expensive?

www.golfclubatlas.com

 

[stymied]

I hear stories like this about how expensive it is to join and then pay subscriptions at US clubs. But I don’t understand the model. Where does the money go? The owners must be making a massive profit.

I suppose newer courses need to pay off the huge cost incurred to build the venue but like the UK there are many courses that have been around a long time so cost base is largely maintenance.

Maintenance is part of it. It is much harder to keep good golf turf in the US than the UK and Ireland. Use of buggies is tough on a course, the weather is different, the turf is different, the soil is different and it's just more expensive. Also, the costs for maintenance are exponential so at the high end a small improvement in quality will cost a lot more. Lots of people with money willing to pay to say they have the best (supply and demand).

The other thing is employee/labor costs. It's not unheard of to have 100+ employees. Clubs often have staff working maintenance (large staff), golf shop, multiple dining/food options, bar(s), event staff, bag drop, club storage, locker room, caddies, buggy storage staff, on course/first tee staff, pools, paddle/raquet sports, child care, fitness center... I recently played at a club that built housing on club grounds for their seasonal staff. Further the salaries of the director of golf/head pro and course Supt are going be well into the 6 figures at high end clubs.

All that being said, there are like 16,000 courses in the US so you can find a course for almost any budget. Folks just tend to focus on the top 1%.

 

[Mandofred]

When I retired in 2011 I moved back to Washington State near Spokane for 4 years. I've copied the current cost (very reasonable) of playing on the 2 courses I played on most of the time. The first is a fairly shortish course, the second was a better course but a longer drive, owned by the city along with several other courses but rates are the same for all I think....Qualchan is the second of the golf courses I used. These are NOT country clubs, but perfectly fine golf courses. A couple of points of interest though, cannot play several months during the winter....and during the summer the courses need daily watering everywhere or the grass would die. From what I saw, joining a private club there is more like joining a top end club here in the UK and you pay a premium price for it.
http://www.wandermere.com/pricing.html
https://my.spokanecity.org/golf/fees/

 

[Crazyface]

Manchester is a big place. Where exactly are you so we have a better idea of where to suggest

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I’m a member of a private club owned by the members, so we have full visibility of the running costs. The objective is to break even (well actually a small surplus to create a buffer). Annual fees are just shy of £3,000.

I struggle to understand how an American club can charge $3,000 per month. Costs are not 10x in the US.

Post WWII, the UK has been a more socially progressive and egalitarian nation than the US,
plain and simple.

We've completely swapped places in terms of the wealth disparity between the economic classes.

There are, of course, still advantages to living in the US, true enough.
More space.
Air Conditioning everywhere.
Friendlier customer service in a tip oriented culture.
Bigger and more parking spaces.
Less expensive food.

Overall, however, most UK citizens would like to visit but remain living right where they are.
[Especially if you don't like guns!]

 

[evemccc]

I can understand this, to a degree.

1) As far as I’m aware, golf is more of a richer person’s sport more so in the US > UK, for starters.
2) Anyone travelling transatlantically for a golf holiday either really loves golf and absolutely prioritises it in their expenditure OR/AND is fairly wealthy
3) If the American golf tourist is not retired, time off work is way more precious than money, and in any case, they’re going to need to pay for accommodation, transport and food anyway for a golf trip, so a course charging £100 more than another course, is a relatively negligible cost increase

There’s so many good places to visit so if I’m an American golfer I’m likely to only visit one region once in my lifetime, and if I’ll visit Ayrshire for example, I’m going to try and play all the best courses such as Troon, Prestwick, Turnberry and Western Gailes, over some goods priced, mid-tier but still decent courses such as Barassie, Gailes, West Kilbride, and Dundonald for example

Maybe it's the same principle that American Tourists to the UK won't book a course charging less than £200