The Footie Thread

[Bdill93]

Take your emotion out of this now.

What if he has a real addiction to Cocaine, due to the stress of the job. Dont you think PGMOL and possibly UEFA have a duty of care to help this guy?

What if he has been set up and been blackmailed by a criminal betting gang?

There are many more possible scenarios too, I know my questions are hypothetical and we may never know the truth but to want this guys career ended over doing coke is excessive in my humble opinion.

Yeah, I'm kinda with you, fire half of London if this is the case

Probably wont see him again though, cancel culture and all that.

 

[Don Barzini]

What if he has been set up and been blackmailed by a criminal betting gang?

Blimey, talk about thinking of zebras when you hear hoofbeats!

 

[RichA]

Take your emotion out of this now.

What if he has a real addiction to Cocaine, due to the stress of the job. Dont you think PGMOL and possibly UEFA have a duty of care to help this guy?

What if he has been set up and been blackmailed by a criminal betting gang?

There are many more possible scenarios too, I know my questions are hypothetical and we may never know the truth but to want this guys career ended over doing coke is excessive in my humble opinion.

If you have a drug problem, disclose it and ask for help then you deserve help.
If you have a drug problem and get caught then, if very lucky, help might be part of your disciplinary procedure.
If you get videoed on a work trip doing coke and slandering clients, customers or colleagues then you're beyond your employer's duty of care.

 

[Swango1980]

In most walks of life, videos of you doing coke and calling a customer/client/colleague the c-bomb would result in a fairly unceremonious hoofing out the door.
I'd be sacked in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure. I reckon some football club owners would continue to employ their manager or certain players if they were caught on video, in a private situation, out of their face and slagging off referees or other people in the business. I'm pretty sure many businesses would continue to employ their staff if a video emerged of an employee being an idiot and immature in their private life. Sure, they'd get a warning and if it is something that happens more often, then their could be grounds for dismissal.

I've no idea what the legal position is in all honesty. Can an employee be sacked for being caught name calling once, or does it need to be more persistent and amount to harassment? Can they be sacked for doing drugs in their own time (or was it on his own time, if he was staying in an all expenses hotel?)

I can imagine it will be very tough for him to referee in the PL, due to fans reaction. Every decision will be judged with much more scrutiny. Is it a decision that negatively impacts on Liverpool, or does it positively impact on Liverpool, people accusing him of going too far the other way to try and prove he has nothing against them?

But, I hate the idea of people getting sacked for a stupid moment in their life, because most of us probably act like idiots in private from time to time. Maybe one thing to consider for managers though. Referees have plenty of decisions to make in the game, many of which they will be 50/50 on. They have to make a decision one way or another. So, perhaps if a manager like Klopp acts like a complete imbecile and shows zero respect to officials, then that may push them towards making a decision that goes against that manager. Gives them that little 1% subconscious nudge to go in favour of the other side. So, perhaps it is a good idea for managers to show a bit more respect. Heard someone talk the other day that they played in a pretty awful amateur side. Anytime their players abused the ref, their captain / manager would tear the player to pieces. Ultimately, the side were very respectful of the officials. End result, they found they could almost get away with murder on the pitch

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Yeah, I'm kinda with you, fire half of London if this is the case

Probably wont see him again though, cancel culture and all that.

His point is very valid. If the person in question was an actor/ess or musician/singer the wave of sympathy and empathy would be huge. Because he's a referee he's treated differently.
I am very anti any drugs, but lets be brutally honest...we probably, all of us, have had contact with someone relatively close to us who has done coke, and we don't know about it.
It is as common as dogs mess on the pavement.

 

[Orikoru]

Take your emotion out of this now.

What if he has a real addiction to Cocaine, due to the stress of the job. Dont you think PGMOL and possibly UEFA have a duty of care to help this guy?

What if he has been set up and been blackmailed by a criminal betting gang?

There are many more possible scenarios too, I know my questions are hypothetical and we may never know the truth but to want this guys career ended over doing coke is excessive in my humble opinion.

I'm with you. What he said about Klopp was accurate, with the way he treated officials and interviewers. Shouldn't lose his job, should probably be a suspension where help is offered regarding the drugs issue. (I mean the guy is in his 40s, that's a bit long in the tooth to still be doing gear recreationally.) Maybe a demotion to Championship or League One and let him work his way back up if he performs well and keeps his nose clean. (Pun intended. )

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Take your emotion out of this now.

What if he has a real addiction to Cocaine, due to the stress of the job. Dont you think PGMOL and possibly UEFA have a duty of care to help this guy?

What if he has been set up and been blackmailed by a criminal betting gang?

There are many more possible scenarios too, I know my questions are hypothetical and we may never know the truth but to want this guys career ended over doing coke is excessive in my humble opinion.

Got nothing to do with emotions

It’s clear the man is not fit to be a professional ref

He can be supported through his drug addiction but he shouldn’t ever be in the middle of a football match

He has shown he has very poor judgment


As for “scenarios” - doesn’t matter what the situation is , he can get help through authorities but doesn’t mean he can just go back to being a high profile ref again

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I'm not sure. I reckon some football club owners would continue to employ their manager or certain players if they were caught on video, in a private situation, out of their face and slagging off referees or other people in the business. I'm pretty sure many businesses would continue to employ their staff if a video emerged of an employee being an idiot and immature in their private life. Sure, they'd get a warning and if it is something that happens more often, then their could be grounds for dismissal.

I've no idea what the legal position is in all honesty. Can an employee be sacked for being caught name calling once, or does it need to be more persistent and amount to harassment? Can they be sacked for doing drugs in their own time (or was it on his own time, if he was staying in an all expenses hotel?)

I can imagine it will be very tough for him to referee in the PL, due to fans reaction. Every decision will be judged with much more scrutiny. Is it a decision that negatively impacts on Liverpool, or does it positively impact on Liverpool, people accusing him of going too far the other way to try and prove he has nothing against them?

But, I hate the idea of people getting sacked for a stupid moment in their life, because most of us probably act like idiots in private from time to time. Maybe one thing to consider for managers though. Referees have plenty of decisions to make in the game, many of which they will be 50/50 on. They have to make a decision one way or another. So, perhaps if a manager like Klopp acts like a complete imbecile and shows zero respect to officials, then that may push them towards making a decision that goes against that manager. Gives them that little 1% subconscious nudge to go in favour of the other side. So, perhaps it is a good idea for managers to show a bit more respect. Heard someone talk the other day that they played in a pretty awful amateur side. Anytime their players abused the ref, their captain / manager would tear the player to pieces. Ultimately, the side were very respectful of the officials. End result, they found they could almost get away with murder on the pitch

When it comes to managers and indeed players acting badly towards refs it’s not limited to just Klopp- far from it

A lot of it started in the 90’s and the raft of players and managers disrespecting a ref is very very very very long

You can prob say it’s near enough every single manager

It’s very much not a new thing

 

[RichA]

I'm not sure. I reckon some football club owners would continue to employ their manager or certain players if they were caught on video, in a private situation, out of their face and slagging off referees or other people in the business. I'm pretty sure many businesses would continue to employ their staff if a video emerged of an employee being an idiot and immature in their private life. Sure, they'd get a warning and if it is something that happens more often, then their could be grounds for dismissal.

I've no idea what the legal position is in all honesty. Can an employee be sacked for being caught name calling once, or does it need to be more persistent and amount to harassment? Can they be sacked for doing drugs in their own time (or was it on his own time, if he was staying in an all expenses hotel?)

I can imagine it will be very tough for him to referee in the PL, due to fans reaction. Every decision will be judged with much more scrutiny. Is it a decision that negatively impacts on Liverpool, or does it positively impact on Liverpool, people accusing him of going too far the other way to try and prove he has nothing against them?

But, I hate the idea of people getting sacked for a stupid moment in their life, because most of us probably act like idiots in private from time to time. Maybe one thing to consider for managers though. Referees have plenty of decisions to make in the game, many of which they will be 50/50 on. They have to make a decision one way or another. So, perhaps if a manager like Klopp acts like a complete imbecile and shows zero respect to officials, then that may push them towards making a decision that goes against that manager. Gives them that little 1% subconscious nudge to go in favour of the other side. So, perhaps it is a good idea for managers to show a bit more respect. Heard someone talk the other day that they played in a pretty awful amateur side. Anytime their players abused the ref, their captain / manager would tear the player to pieces. Ultimately, the side were very respectful of the officials. End result, they found they could almost get away with murder on the pitch

I get what you're saying but when the person is in a role where they are enforcing rules/laws then they have a responsibility to do the right thing in private as well as professionally.
He's lost any kind of authority he might have had and his judgement is forever questionable at best.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I'm with you. What he said about Klopp was accurate, with the way he treated officials and interviewers. Shouldn't lose his job, should probably be a suspension where help is offered regarding the drugs issue. (I mean the guy is in his 40s, that's a bit long in the tooth to still be doing gear recreationally.) Maybe a demotion to Championship or League One and let him work his way back up if he performs well and keeps his nose clean. (Pun intended. )

Unfortunately for him - the minute he used nationality within an insult it goes up a level

The guy has prob also lost any respect he had in the first place

 

[Orikoru]

Unfortunately for him - the minute he used nationality within an insult it goes up a level

The guy has prob also lost any respect he had in the first place

I will grant you that. The implied xenophobia makes it worse for sure. But on a related note, Bentancur said something inappropriate about Heung-Min Son's nationality, he made an apology and apparently he's getting a several game ban now - but not sacked for life.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I will grant you that. The implied xenophobia makes it worse for sure. But on a related note, Bentancur said something inappropriate about Heung-Min Son's nationality, he made an apology and apparently he's getting a several game ban now - but not sacked for life.

The difference being Bentancur isn’t in a position to impart bias within decisions of the game - but Coote wouldn’t have been sacked for life for what he said about Liverpool and Klopp , the second video sorted that out

 

[RichA]

I will grant you that. The implied xenophobia makes it worse for sure. But on a related note, Bentancur said something inappropriate about Heung-Min Son's nationality, he made an apology and apparently he's getting a several game ban now - but not sacked for life.

Different rules apply when the alleged offender represents the law making/enforcing authority.
Klopp and Bentancur bring disrepute on themselves and their clubs; a ref brings distrpute on the establishment of football itself.

 

[Orikoru]

The difference being Bentancur isn’t in a position to impart bias within decisions of the game - but Coote wouldn’t have been sacked for life for what he said about Liverpool and Klopp , the second video sorted that out

That's fair. I would still like to see him given a chance to restart his career at a lower level, that's all.

 

[RichA]

That's fair. I would still like to see him given a chance to restart his career at a lower level, that's all.

Would we feel the same if a law enforcement official was caught snorting drugs and slandering someone whose "employees" they police or would we think they weren't fit for any role in law enforcement?

 

[Orikoru]

Would we feel the same if a law enforcement official was caught snorting drugs and slandering someone whose "employees" they police or would we think they weren't fit for any role in law enforcement?

I think breaking the law as a law enforcement officer is a little different. But as for them calling someone a see you next Tuesday when they are one - nope, I don't care.

For the average Joe I don't think doing a line here or there is a massive deal - as I said above, of course a suspension and a conversation about whether it's a problem for him and if he needs help or not.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think there are quite a few on here who would do well to request a copy of their employers staff handbook and read it, carefully. There will be a pdf copy, or similar, so you can peruse as leisure, have your own copy. Particularly around the area of social media, out of work responsibilities, duty of care to uphold the reputation of their employers. It will clearly be an eye opener.

Can someone return from a scandal? Can redemption occur? Yes, but it is unlikely to bring back a total return to the same level. Medicine will have to be taken.

 

[RichA]

I think breaking the law as a law enforcement officer is a little different. But as for them calling someone a see you next Tuesday when they are one - nope, I don't care.

For the average Joe I don't think doing a line here or there is a massive deal - as I said above, of course a suspension and a conversation about whether it's a problem for him and if he needs help or not.

OK - a different example...
Suppose a £12 per hour childcare assistant at your daughter's pre-school was on video snorting drugs and describing her customers with highly perjorative nouns.
Demotion or sacking and barred from similar employment?
[and I hope you know we're having a light hearted chat, not an argument ]

 

[Orikoru]

OK - a different example...
Suppose a £12 per hour childcare assistant at your daughter's pre-school was on video snorting drugs and describing her customers with highly perjorative nouns.
Demotion or sacking and barred from similar employment?
[and I hope you know we're having a light hearted chat, not an argument ]

Again though, taking care of children is a different kettle of fish to being a football referee! I know people like to act like football is important, but really, a referee doesn't need to be held to the same standard as a police officer or a guardian of children do they?

Look, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if he's kicked out, I'm just giving my views on it really.

[Of course, as always.]

 

[RichA]

Again though, taking care of children is a different kettle of fish to being a football referee! I know people like to act like football is important, but really, a referee doesn't need to be held to the same standard as a police officer or a guardian of children do they?

Look, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if he's kicked out, I'm just giving my views on it really.

[Of course, as always.]

Yeah - the difference between childcare or street level law enforcement and refereeing Premier league football is about £70,000 to £150,000 per year and the potential of actual harm.
And I'm not interested in your view; this doesn't end until you agree that I've won this discussion.