Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Think maybe the ship has sailed now for him - it’s one area that’s pretty stacked
Think maybe the ship has sailed now for him - it’s one area that’s pretty stacked
Neilds
Assistant Pro
There is an interesting article about Man Utd on the BBC website at the moment. In it they mention the 2 other clubs that INEOS own.
First is Nice who Ratcliffe bought in 2019. They have not finished higher than 5th in this time, twice coming as low as 9th. They are also on their 7th manager in this time.
He also bought Lausanne in the Swiss League in 2017. Since then, they have been relegated twice (subsequently promoted) and are currently 8th in the league.
If you also take into account the mess he made of the Sky cycling team since he took over, maybe he isn't the Messiah that people think he is and is just out for himself?
First is Nice who Ratcliffe bought in 2019. They have not finished higher than 5th in this time, twice coming as low as 9th. They are also on their 7th manager in this time.
He also bought Lausanne in the Swiss League in 2017. Since then, they have been relegated twice (subsequently promoted) and are currently 8th in the league.
If you also take into account the mess he made of the Sky cycling team since he took over, maybe he isn't the Messiah that people think he is and is just out for himself?
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
No it’s not but as has been pointed out other teams player behaviour has been overlooked ( Jackson)
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
It was something I highlighted a while back
There were a lot of talks about Brailsford being involved etc but he isn’t a football man
But they do have people like Edwards involved now who do know what they are doing and it will depend on what level of autonomy they have
One of Uniteds biggest issues for years was having no one with any football sense at the level where players are signed - hence some of the rubbish they bought
If Richards just sits back and lets football people do football choices then it’s a step forward
Yes Jackson’s actions being ignored is pretty poor
Swango1980
Well-known member
No idea about cycling. But, in terms of those two football teams I wouldn't necessarily say he has been a failure. Whether he has been a success, or just kept them around where they were, I'm not sure.
For Lausanne, from 2002 - 2017 they spend 1 season in 3rd Tier, 9 in 2nd Tier and 5 in 1st Tier. Looked a bit of a yoyo club. They finished 2nd in the first tier in 2023/24, their best position since 1999/2000.
Nice have been constantly in the Top 10 since his arrival. The 2/3 years before he arrived, they had also done pretty well, finishing as high as 3rd. Before that, they were often well outside the Top 10. So, not sure if his arrival has had little impact, or he has helped steady the ship a bit, to stop them declining a lot after a few years of very good form?
I'm not so interested in Jim Radcliffe in isolation, it is really who he has around him and who he employs to actually run the football club. After all, he won't be the one determining the transfer policy, deciding when to sack a manager or what manager to get in, etc. And, the people that he has brought in to run the football side of things have all seem to have fairly positive reviews by most that know a lot about them. INEOS probably have more to pick from to run Man Utd than they did at Nice or Lausanne, simply because they have a bigger wallet and higher profile.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
You sort of back up my point. He obviously hasn’t brought in the right people in France and Switzerland to make the teams the top in each country so is he going to bring in the right people to Man Utd? Does he really know what is required to run a football team?
Swango1980
Well-known member
Not sure I back up your point, as I didn't acknowledge he has failed at those clubs, and he may have actually had some success. Rome wasn't built in a day, it can be a rocky road to success. If you take over a club who yoyos between 2 divisions, or another club who, until recently was often near the bottom end of the table quite consistently, then it probably isn't easy to suddenly get them competing for the title every year. Maybe a different approach is needed at different clubs, to build a sound foundation to build on. Some clubs simply have a much lower foundation.
The thing about people like him, he won't worry at all about whether he knows how to run a football club or not, it is nowhere near a one man job. He'll know his weaknesses, and he'll be pretty good at figuring out what sort of people he needs to run many different types of businesses. He is no mug. That's is why he has brought in several high profile people to do that for him, they'll be the important ones when it comes to making United play better on the pitch. Over time, he might see other roles that might be required to improve certain elements. He, and whatever team he has around him will probably be pretty good at figuring out what is working and what isn't.
Personally, I never expected him to come in, and a year later we'd be better than Man City. But, I was positive that a new person who had come in, who knew how to run businesses and didn't seem motivated by fleecing the club, but actually creating something much more positive for fans. It doesn't look to have been a disaster at his other 2 clubs, and I'm sure he has learnt a lot from those experiences already. Don't expect every decision to be perfect, but still expect him and his team to make a lot of good decisions along the way.
This is the first season they've really started working in anger at the club, so it is far too early to predict how they will do, or even how they are doing.
But Jim Ratcliffe isn’t running the football team. He co-owns the club. A lot of people seem to be getting too wrapped up in Ratcliffe and his purported lack of football expertise.
In Dan Ashworth, Jason Wilcox and Omar Berrada they have people who know how to run a football club.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Whilst I believe Amorin to be a very good coach
What will be key will be the likes of Edwards and Wilcox role
They are very much a big part of any sort of rebuilt and if they get the signings wrong then it doesn’t matter how good Amorin is
And it is also how Amorin gets on with the two of them
Sporting sold and bought very well under Viana
Going to be a mess for a while trying to get the players in that suit the tactics
What will be key will be the likes of Edwards and Wilcox role
They are very much a big part of any sort of rebuilt and if they get the signings wrong then it doesn’t matter how good Amorin is
And it is also how Amorin gets on with the two of them
Sporting sold and bought very well under Viana
Going to be a mess for a while trying to get the players in that suit the tactics
Swango1980
Well-known member
Just another point in trying to evaluate his achievements in Switzerland and France against expectations.
Lausanne were up and down between the first and second tier before Ratcliffe joined. What would be an equivalent English club? Watford, Burnley, Leicester?
Nice were often well into the bottom half of the table, although experienced a couple of years getting into top 4 before he arrived. English team equivalent, Brighton, Villa?
Even if a fantastic ownership came into Watford, Burnley or Leicester, would you expect to see them challenging for the Premier League, or at least consistently getting into Champions League? I doubt it. They may still have a period of yo-yoing while it takes years to gradually improve their foundation
If a fantastic ownership came into Brighton or Villa, would they suddenly be challenging for the premier league? Perhaps. But, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal look to be run well, and there are others who have that ambition and money to spend, so breaking into that would be difficult regardless. Fast forward 3 or 4 years, Villa and Brighton may still be run very well, but would anyone be surprised they might finish the odd season mid table along the way? Probably not.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Evra:
"Watching Arsenal is like watching Netflix. You always wait for the next season"
"Watching Arsenal is like watching Netflix. You always wait for the next season"
venger
Well-known member
Depends on how far away from his tanning salon it is.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
He looks ridiculous
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Erik ten Hag sacked by Man Utd: Questions for Ineos after sticking with Dutchman in summer
Have Ineos failed their first big test in charge of Manchester United with their delayed decision to sack Erik ten Hag?
www.bbc.co.uk
Don’t know if this had been copied and pasted. But dear god that’s painful to listen to.
Quote.
“Eric is a good coach and this team has only been together since the summer” .
I cannot remember ever seeing such rubbish quoted in such a short sentence as that. And the guy is bloody stinking rich yet thick as pig muck. I would suggest that firstly, he needs to give head head a bloody big wobble because with a shocking comment like that he is part of the massive Utd problem and not the solution.
As I mentioned yesterday, the guy that Utd seem to be going for does seem to be a massive step in the right direction.
AmandaJR
Money List Winner
If it's close to the teeth whitening gaff he'll be fine!
SaintStu
New member
Arthur wedge. Please tell me you have been born in Liverpool? If yes 
.
.
Erik ten Hag sacked by Man Utd: Questions for Ineos after sticking with Dutchman in summer
Have Ineos failed their first big test in charge of Manchester United with their delayed decision to sack Erik ten Hag?www.bbc.co.uk
Don’t know if this had been copied and pasted. But dear god that’s painful to listen to.
Quote.
“Eric is a good coach and this team has only been together since the summer” .
I cannot remember ever seeing such rubbish quoted in such a short sentence as that.
I have always been of the view that the mark of a decent leader is that they don’t berate their staff in public.
As ten Hag was still in his employ at the time that’s precisely the sort of response I’d expect.
Swango1980
Well-known member
You've obviously missed the quotes from all the other managers today including Pep, who have said positive things about ETH.Erik ten Hag sacked by Man Utd: Questions for Ineos after sticking with Dutchman in summer
Have Ineos failed their first big test in charge of Manchester United with their delayed decision to sack Erik ten Hag?www.bbc.co.uk
Don’t know if this had been copied and pasted. But dear god that’s painful to listen to.
Quote.
“Eric is a good coach and this team has only been together since the summer” .
I cannot remember ever seeing such rubbish quoted in such a short sentence as that. And the guy is bloody stinking rich yet thick as pig muck. I would suggest that firstly, he needs to give head head a bloody big wobble because with a shocking comment like that he is part of the massive Utd problem and not the solution.
As I mentioned yesterday, the guy that Utd seem to be going for does seem to be a massive step in the right direction.
I guess Pep must also be as thick as pig muck?
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Said positive things
I have never read in the history of the beautiful game where a manager has said he ( another manager) is rammel.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Arthur wedge. Please tell me you have been born in Liverpool? If yes
No wasn’t born in Liverpool
