The Footie Thread

[Billysboots]

On the subject of Amorim and United, this one comment encapsulates what I want to see in the next United manager.

"Amorim would admit he is still adding layers of knowledge to his methods but he still believes football only makes sense if those watching are thrilled by it," said Balague.

The comment is a cut and paste from a BBC Sport article quoting Guillem Balague. And it captures why I am a Manchester United fan, and have been for fifty years. I grew up watching exciting, attacking, attractive football. The team back then won very little apart from the odd FA Cup, but I loved watching them. Ferguson brought success alongside great football. An absolute marriage made in heaven for fans of any club - who doesn’t want to watch their side win trophies whilst playing attractive football?

The last decade has been largely dross. The FA Cup win in 2016 was achieved by one of the most boring sides I have ever seen. It was little better under Mourinho. And then the last three years. A couple of trophies, but the football has been as turgid as I can ever remember. I stuck it out because I hoped things would change. They didn’t.

All I have ever wanted is to be entertained at a football match. If United lose 1-0 but play attractive, free flowing football, then I’d honestly rather see that than 90 minutes of mind numbing anti-football and a 1-0 win.

So if Amorim is going to bring excitement back to my trips to Old Trafford, pay the release clause in his contract and get him in post.

 

[Swango1980]

Said positive things I have never read in the history of the beautiful game where a manager has said he ( another manager) is rammel.

Likewise when it comes to owners talking about their managers, or anyone else on their payroll.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

On the subject of Amorim and United, this one comment encapsulates what I want to see in the next United manager.

"Amorim would admit he is still adding layers of knowledge to his methods but he still believes football only makes sense if those watching are thrilled by it," said Balague.

The comment is a cut and paste from a BBC Sport article quoting Guillem Balague. And it captures why I am a Manchester United fan, and have been for fifty years. I grew up watching exciting, attacking, attractive football. The team back then won very little apart from the odd FA Cup, but I loved watching them. Ferguson brought success alongside great football. An absolute marriage made in heaven for fans of any club - who doesn’t want to watch their side win trophies whilst playing attractive football?

The last decade has been largely dross. The FA Cup win in 2016 was achieved by one of the most boring sides I have ever seen. It was little better under Mourinho. And then the last three years. A couple of trophies, but the football has been as turgid as I can ever remember. I stuck it out because I hoped things would change. They didn’t.

All I have ever wanted is to be entertained at a football match. If United lose 1-0 but play attractive, free flowing football, then I’d honestly rather see that than 90 minutes of mind numbing anti-football and a 1-0 win.

So if Amorim is going to bring excitement back to my trips to Old Trafford, pay the release clause in his contract and get him in post.

If he gets it right then it’s a bargain to pay the release clause

For his system he doesn’t have the players within Uniteds squad so it’s going to be interesting to see how he adapts early to fit the players into a system

Gets it right then it’s a worry for other teams

 

[Pin-seeker]

Arthur wedge. Please tell me you have been born in Liverpool? If yes .

 

[venger]

Some of the Brazilian media are now accusing the ballon dor of racism, corruption and European bias, all because they didn’t get the winner they wanted. Completely forgetting the years messi won.

A quote from the bbc article

"The fact that he is Brazilian, plays for Real Madrid, and is a forward should have worked in his favour”

 

[Swango1980]

Some of the Brazilian media are now accusing the ballon dor of racism, corruption and European bias, all because they didn’t get the winner they wanted. Completely forgetting the years messi won.

A quote from the bbc article

"The fact that he is Brazilian, plays for Real Madrid, and is a forward should have worked in his favour”

Forgotten

Kaka
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
Ronaldo (R9)

One interesting point made, not going in Junior's favour, was that so many other Real Madrid players were going to get a lot of nominations, like Bellingham. Madrid were 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the list and had 5 in top 10. So, if voters were going to veer towards a Real Madrid player, their vote may he a bit more spread.

If they were veering towards a Man City player, most would veer towards Rodri although a few to Haaland as well, maybe Foden (outside top 10)

What is funny though, that most people recognise the award as a bit of a novelty. That there will be many bias' towards players, often by how the team did rather than how good they are. After all, best player in the world may often simply play for a side that didn't win a Champions League or World Cup, but winning those as a team often gives huge brownie points to those players.

But, when results come out, then suddenly we see the people who do take it way too seriously, no more than this year.

 

[Tashyboy]

Forgotten

Kaka
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
Ronaldo (R9)

One interesting point made, not going in Junior's favour, was that so many other Real Madrid players were going to get a lot of nominations, like Bellingham. Madrid were 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the list and had 5 in top 10. So, if voters were going to veer towards a Real Madrid player, their vote may he a bit more spread.

If they were veering towards a Man City player, most would veer towards Rodri although a few to Haaland as well, maybe Foden (outside top 10)

What is funny though, that most people recognise the award as a bit of a novelty. That there will be many bias' towards players, often by how the team did rather than how good they are. After all, best player in the world may often simply play for a side that didn't win a Champions League or World Cup, but winning those as a team often gives huge brownie points to those players.

But, when results come out, then suddenly we see the people who do take it way too seriously, no more than this year.

To be honest I am not exactly sure what was what re the announcement of the winner.
Apparently in the past they have let the winner know a few days before so he can be there, but asked it be kept quiet.
This year they apparently never let anyone know who was the winner. To that end Real Madrid had no confirmation (that Vinicus had won) so decided not to attend to support Vinicus. Either though they had won other awards.
Yet it was the worst kept secret that apparently Rodri had won.
What seems to of been lost in all of this is that the Balon Dor is voted on by 100 journalists around Europe. It is independent.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

To be honest I am not exactly sure what was what re the announcement of the winner.
Apparently in the past they have let the winner know a few days before so he can be there, but asked it be kept quiet.
This year they apparently never let anyone know who was the winner. To that end Real Madrid had no confirmation (that Vinicus had won) so decided not to attend to support Vinicus. Either though they had won other awards.
Yet it was the worst kept secret that apparently Rodri had won.
What seems to of been lost in all of this is that the Balon Dor is voted on by 100 journalists around Europe. It is independent.

My understanding was that RM were told the day before of who had won, but refused to go as they were being “disrespected”

They obviously didn’t pay the voters enough or gave the, the wrong watch…

 

[PJ87]

Forgotten

Kaka
Ronaldinho
Rivaldo
Ronaldo (R9)

One interesting point made, not going in Junior's favour, was that so many other Real Madrid players were going to get a lot of nominations, like Bellingham. Madrid were 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the list and had 5 in top 10. So, if voters were going to veer towards a Real Madrid player, their vote may he a bit more spread.

If they were veering towards a Man City player, most would veer towards Rodri although a few to Haaland as well, maybe Foden (outside top 10)

What is funny though, that most people recognise the award as a bit of a novelty. That there will be many bias' towards players, often by how the team did rather than how good they are. After all, best player in the world may often simply play for a side that didn't win a Champions League or World Cup, but winning those as a team often gives huge brownie points to those players.

But, when results come out, then suddenly we see the people who do take it way too seriously, no more than this year.

Is it forgotten that he isn't actually that good?

I mean days gone by you played Madrid and you feared figo, Ronaldo (both of them) zindane

Does anyone really fear him?

 

[Pin-seeker]

Is it forgotten that he isn't actually that good?

I mean days gone by you played Madrid and you feared figo, Ronaldo (both of them) zindane

Does anyone really fear him?

Personally I think he’s a top player & teams would worry about him.
But not in the same class as the players you mentioned.

I think it was close between him & Rodri,I think the right man won it.

 

[Swango1980]

Is it forgotten that he isn't actually that good?

I mean days gone by you played Madrid and you feared figo, Ronaldo (both of them) zindane

Does anyone really fear him?

Fear Junior? I don't know, not really seen much of them. But, if he plays like he did in their last game in Europe, I'd fear him to some extent, and they had a pretty good run of results up until Barcelona battered them, so he'd be a big part of that I'm sure.

At any rate, I wonder if a lot of the fear factor 20, 30 years ago was related to the fact we probably didn't get to watch a lot of live football, especially European league football. So, when we got to see R9, Zidane, etc. it was the rare occasion in the European Cup or National tournament, or maybe on Football Italia if their team was live that week. There was an exotic feel to it, fear of the unknown. European clubs were also generally better in Europe than English ones as well, adding to that fear from our side.

Today, we can easily watch over a dozen games a week if we wanted to. Some clubs, we can watch virtually every game they play, as they are on live most times. Some of us may watch more European league football, and European Cup competitions have millions of games we can tune in to if we so desire. Even if it is Real Madrid versus some Estonian village team in the early rounds. Plus, we've youTube and 24 hours media coverage of people endlessly talking football. I think the fear factor had largely vanished / diminished, or at least that fear of the unknown, the mystique of seeing a player live for the first time, or rare time.

Do people fear Rodri? I doubt it, but they'll know they are in for a ridiculously hard battle with him being the midfield general. Personally, I'd have thought Mbappe was the scariest opponent to play against, but even with him, I've seen him enough to see that he can also have quieter games. I can't see anyone being as scary as R9 or Zidane were back in the day, unless they are an extreme talent like Messi or R7. Those two basically had to up the stakes to the point they were scoring more goals than they played games over ridiculously long periods, and getting them in the conversation for best player in history, not just their generation. On top of that, they were involved in making those chances as well, it wasn't like they were goal hangers with the best ever team mates creating everything for them.

That's only my personal view on it. Not sure that magical fear / awe I had with a player could ever top when I saw R9 on a rare occasion, for Barcelona or Inter. Messi and R7 were ultimately better players. In awe of them as well, but that raw feeling doesn't top R9 for me, but probably because I saw so much of Messi and R7 that the mystique of it all subsided. Of course, part of it could just be because I'm older and grumpier, whereas when R9 came on the scene I was a kid, still filled with a lot more optimism about life, and so was more impressed by such things

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Vinicius Jr was a key player in Madrid winning the CL and league again

if he had won the award it would have been deserved

But it’s not like in the past when some players have stood clear above everyone

It would have been a tight call

 

[Orikoru]

It's not exactly a robbery like the years Lewandowski and Haaland should have won. Rodri is world class in his position and a worthy winner. If you gave me a choice of him or Vinicius to be the first name on my team sheet, I'm picking Rodri every time.

 

[Morfeen75]

#6's shouldnt be winning the Ballon D'or. That's not dismissing Rodri as he's over taken Makelele as the best #6 in world football. Equally i dont think Vini Jr should've won it neither, Haaland would have got my vote. For the last 2 seasons he has been a machine.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Wonder what’s happening with United and Amorin


Seems the agreement with the clubs is sorted but nothing confirmed with the manager and he is looking like he will be in charge at the weekend and maybe for the CL game ?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

#6's shouldnt be winning the Ballon D'or. That's not dismissing Rodri as he's over taken Makelele as the best #6 in world football. Equally i dont think Vini Jr should've won it neither, Haaland would have got my vote. For the last 2 seasons he has been a machine.

Have to ask why shouldn’t a 6 win the Balon D’Or ?

They may not get the headlines and score the goals but they are very key to a successful team

Should Balon D’Or only going to those scoring goals

 

[Reemul]

Spot on - its massive news in the sport

If the roles were reversed and it was Liverpool struggling and sacking managers then the United fans would be all over it just like they were when Rodgers was manager

As a child of the 80's supporting Everton, Liverpool, were /áre nmo different, samer attitude as Manure even with winning the league once in 32 years. It's like a pot and kettle competition between them

 

[Morfeen75]

Have to ask why shouldn’t a 6 win the Balon D’Or ?

They may not get the headlines and score the goals but they are very key to a successful team

Should Balon D’Or only going to those scoring goals

Goalkeepers are key too but they shouldnt get it neither.

Yes and those who are consistently influential in creating chances.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

As a child of the 80's supporting Everton, Liverpool, were /áre nmo different, samer attitude as Manure even with winning the league once in 32 years. It's like a pot and kettle competition between them

It’s part and parcel of the sport and how rivalries are formed

Liverpool Everton will always be pointing fingers and highlighting issues etc even more so when struggling - even down to a single Derby day win

If Liverpool were struggling and sacking managers as we have in the past then no doubt rivals would be revelling in and enjoying the struggles

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Goalkeepers are key too but they shouldnt get it neither.

Yes and those who are consistently influential in creating chances.

It’s very narrow view of the players within the squad

GK’a saving and keeping clean sheets are just as key as scoring the goals