The Footie Thread

[Orikoru]

For me England have 2 options or a plan A and B.

Plan A four at the back. Four solid defenders. If that is the case, I think Walker is the best option. He will occasionally overlap but is solid ish.
Plan B, again four at the back, but the left or right full back drops into midfield like it happens at City and Liverpool. Occasionally Stones has done that at City.
plan A you use against any team especially the better teams. Plan B you use against the lesser teams. Use that against the top teams and it could be a rugby score.
Re last night it was not a friendly however much folk think it is a rammel tournament. Last nights formation was a million miles away from what we have seen before. But it is a formation fans have asked for. That being unleash Englands firepower. For me that was something that needed working on. It was something that was tried with some of Englands best players. Not a team that Southgate picked and you knew they would never play again especially at a tournament.
Whichever plan England go with be it A or B, I have serious reservations that either plan would work with just Rice trying to protect the back four.
Furthermore and a bigger problem for me is who is the midfield playmaker. Last night there just seemed to be no one sat in the middle knocking the ball left or right.

I've never seen any fan ask for a 4-2-4 with no strikers.

 

[PaulMdj]

I think you’re missing my point. Either that or you don’t entirely understand the difference between an attacking wing back and a defensive full back playing in a traditional flat back four.

Genuinely believe it is you not understanding TAA, if he’s told to stay back and defend then he’s not that far off the best in the PL. He’s done that numerous times for LPool when told.

TAA plays the roles he’s instructed to, ie if he’s given a free role and asked to press forward he will, however, the team has to be set up to cover him, England don’t do that.

If you want him to stay back and defend, then he has to be told to do that job.

A team has to be set up to how TAA is going to be asked to play, either as I put before a Central 3, or a deep midfielder dropping in.

 

[PaulMdj]

I've never seen any fan ask for a 4-2-4 with no strikers.

I though it was 2-1-7.

 

[Billysboots]

Genuinely believe it is you not understanding TAA, if he’s told to stay back and defend then he’s not that far off the best in the PL. He’s done that numerous times for LPool when told.

TAA plays the roles he’s instructed to, ie if he’s given a free role and asked to press forward he will, however, the team has to be set up to cover him, England don’t do that.

If you want him to stay back and defend, then he has to be told to do that job.

A team has to be set up to how TAA is going to be asked to play, either as I put before a Central 3, or a deep midfielder dropping in.

I absolutely understand that a player will deploy as he is told to deploy, Paul. With the greatest respect, I’m not stupid.

But my opinion, and I am entitled to voice it, is that TAA is some way short of being one of the best right sided defenders in the Premier League. I feel quite sure there are plenty who will say his lack of awareness regarding what is going on around him is, at times, as bad as it gets.

Ally that to his often average at best positional sense and, in sorry to say, that does not add up to a great defender.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I though it was 2-1-7.

Is Mourinho in charge then?

 

[PaulMdj]

I absolutely understand that a player will deploy as he is told to deploy, Paul. With the greatest respect, I’m not stupid.

But my opinion, and I am entitled to voice it, is that TAA is some way short of being one of the best right sided defenders in the Premier League. I feel quite sure there are plenty who will say his lack of awareness regarding what is going on around him is, at times, as bad as it gets.

Ally that to his often average at best positional sense and, in sorry to say, that does not add up to a great defender.

I never implied or said you were stupid, just like I took no offence at your post to me asking if I was missing the point or not understanding the difference in full backs.

Neither of us are LPool fans snd probably watch TAA the same amount.

Phil has proved time and time again on here that his defensive stats over the past few seasons have been up there with the best of the rest in the PL, and my opinion is that opposition fans (not you) tend to jump on the bandwagon about his lack of defensive ability.

 

[clubchamp98]

What was forgotten was that the goal came from the ball being hoofed forward. It was div 2 football and we couldn’t deal with it.

Yes by our LB to their keeper.
Just keep the ball it’s not rocket science.
A draw would have been a result given how we played.

 

[Billysboots]

Thread tidied up. If we’re going to all fall out, let’s at least fall out about football, and not who is having a dig at who, who needs to “man up”, and who is on your ignore list.

Thanks.

 

[Swango1980]

I absolutely understand that a player will deploy as he is told to deploy, Paul. With the greatest respect, I’m not stupid.

But my opinion, and I am entitled to voice it, is that TAA is some way short of being one of the best right sided defenders in the Premier League. I feel quite sure there are plenty who will say his lack of awareness regarding what is going on around him is, at times, as bad as it gets.

Ally that to his often average at best positional sense and, in sorry to say, that does not add up to a great defender.

Agreed, I also believe TAA is a terrible defender. In fact, one of the worst defenders in PL history that has regularly played for a top half club.

There were many poor performances last night in fairness, so couldn't single him out for that result. But any half decent attack would be licking their lips if TAA is playing. Even if the manager demanded he play ultra defensive. His positional play is poor, he is weak and you definitely wouldn't fancy him defending a cross to the back post, even if he was marking Warwick Davis.

 

[clubchamp98]

So he’s a wing back, then. That’s precisely the point I am trying to make.

If you are playing a flat back four with traditional full backs then there are far better out there than TAA. Aaron Wan-Bissaka is a way better traditional full back than TAA will ever be.

I agree but TAA is doing what the manager has told him to do.
Tactics come from the manager nobody else If TAA wasn’t doing as he’s told he wouldn’t be playing.
Or would be hooked.

As for being out of position it depends what the manager has asked him to do !
If it’s play forward then he is basically not a FB so quoting out of position is wrong as he’s not playing the RB position this is where a lot don’t get where he should be.
He’s always playing catch up to get back and defend because he’s so far forward under orders.

So the manager sets the team !

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The issue when judging TAA is putting labels on the position he plays - you only have to listen to what managers say about him , he is one of the best players in the prem , his ability on the ball is superb

When it comes to defending it depends on what the manager has asked him to do - at Liverpool he roams and has someone to cover him , but when he is asked to sit in then he can. He plays high because that’s what he is asked to do

 

[Billysboots]

The issue when judging TAA is putting labels on the position he plays - you only have to listen to what managers say about him , he is one of the best players in the prem , his ability on the ball is superb

When it comes to defending it depends on what the manager has asked him to do - at Liverpool he roams and has someone to cover him , but when he is asked to sit in then he can. He plays high because that’s what he is asked to do

I think there’s a danger of my comments being misinterpreted.

I absolutely agree his ability on the ball is great, as is his range of passing and contribution when getting into advanced positions. I’m certainly not saying he’s a bad player, far from it.

But equally I don’t think he is as good a defender as many seem to believe. At times he really does get what traditionalists regard as the defensive basics quite badly wrong.

In the right system for him, a really good player. But when being relied upon defensively, not good enough for me.

Anyway, I’ve said my bit. Time for me to draw breath and nip for an early evening pint.

 

[Beezerk]

The issue when judging TAA is putting labels on the position he plays - you only have to listen to what managers say about him , he is one of the best players in the prem , his ability on the ball is superb

When it comes to defending it depends on what the manager has asked him to do - at Liverpool he roams and has someone to cover him , but when he is asked to sit in then he can. He plays high because that’s what he is asked to do

They must tell him to tackle like a child and always be out of position

 

[PaulMdj]

The issue when judging TAA is putting labels on the position he plays - you only have to listen to what managers say about him , he is one of the best players in the prem , his ability on the ball is superb

When it comes to defending it depends on what the manager has asked him to do - at Liverpool he roams and has someone to cover him , but when he is asked to sit in then he can. He plays high because that’s what he is asked to do

There isn’t a stand out, head and shoulders above everyone else English right back at the moment.

Are TAA’s defensive stats comparable with Walker, Trippier or even Ben White? Absolutely they are, is he strongest in every area? No, but neither are any of those 3.

They all have their strong points and weak points, but to dismiss him out of hand from a defencesive point of view is just daft. He’d walk in to 18 other Clubs in the PL as a defender.

 

[Swango1980]

The issue when judging TAA is putting labels on the position he plays - you only have to listen to what managers say about him , he is one of the best players in the prem , his ability on the ball is superb

When it comes to defending it depends on what the manager has asked him to do - at Liverpool he roams and has someone to cover him , but when he is asked to sit in then he can. He plays high because that’s what he is asked to do

I wouldn't listen to what managers would say. Not one manager is going to say "TAA is rubbish". Not one manager is going to say "ETH is awful". Not one manager is going to say "Bruno Fernandes is a terrible captain"

Because, if they do, some serious headlines will be drawn up, it'll cause serious controversy and it could well bite them on the backside in the future.

TAA may well not be asked to defend, because managers know he is poor at it. But, we all agree he can kick a ball. So, they will try and get him out on a wide right position where kicking the ball will be his key contribution, not tackling

 

[Slime]

As a pure right back, I don't think there are any better than AWB.
One of the best one on one full backs I've seen for many years.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Are we sure he really said either of those things? You can't be sure with Twitter, could be totally made-up quotes.

If it’s on social media it’s 100% true.

Well if you want it to be

 

[Tashyboy]

As a pure right back, I don't think there are any better than AWB.
One of the best one on one full backs I've seen for many years.

He may well be, but is he like Pickford. An 80’s keeper and an 80’s defender. I don’t have a problem with that but the game has evolved.
The reason I say that. Last night The onus was on England to attack and well we saw what happened. That said I mentioned earlier on that if England had a plan A and B. AWB May well be a good option for a flat back 4.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I wouldn't listen to what managers would say. Not one manager is going to say "TAA is rubbish". Not one manager is going to say "ETH is awful". Not one manager is going to say "Bruno Fernandes is a terrible captain"

Because, if they do, some serious headlines will be drawn up, it'll cause serious controversy and it could well bite them on the backside in the future.

TAA may well not be asked to defend, because managers know he is poor at it. But, we all agree he can kick a ball. So, they will try and get him out on a wide right position where kicking the ball will be his key contribution, not tackling

He has been asked to defend plenty of times and been successful doing that plenty of times

he is one of the best players in football at what he does and that will include defending - his stats are up there with the best and been shown that plenty of times

When you come up with statements like “one of the worst defenders in prem history for a top half team” just shows how ridiculous some are.

He is attack minded but he can defend , he isn’t blessed with walkers pace to be able to get back when teams do go on a quick break but that’s why his club team have fast CB’s to allow him and the other full backs to be high , at times he has lost his awareness being his left shoulder but right now he is part of the best defence in the league and been part of one of the best defences over the last 6/7 years.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Livramento at Newcastle is a very good player. He should be one they start trying out. He could be another year away but with the scarcity of options, I'd give him a go.

Livramento is a good player , certainly capable of getting up and down as well as having decent delivery - if you have slow CBs then he should be given a go. The other one would have been Lampety but England lost out there imo