The Footie Thread

[Bdill93]

I'm sure we've discussed it many times, but defending in football is not what it used to be at all. Look at the early 2000s centre backs, like Terry, Vidic, Campbell, Adams a little before them. Uncompromising players who would win the ball and clear it. Nowadays the focus is on whether they can keep possession. The archetypal modern centre back is John Stones - nice and tidy on the ball, yes he can defend a bit, but he's nothing against those names I mentioned. People raved about Van Dijk a couple of seasons ago, yes he was very good by modern standards, but again, not really up to the names I mentioned.

Yeah Pau Torres is probably the single best passer at Villa, amazing with the ball at his feet and always calm on the ball - he's not a great tackler or bruiser though.

Would I replace him with an early 2000's CB though? Absolutely not in 2024

 

[Orikoru]

Re your last point, I think that’s exactly what’s happened in the recent England games. Maybe the manager has underestimated what he thought were poor teams and didn’t expect TAA to actually do much proper defending. To steal a phrase from you, there’s no way he’s an international level defender and should be no where near the starting 11 imo.

Who would be your right back then? Personally I think Walker should be phased out due to his age at the next tournament. I'd gladly have White but they've not found a truce yet. James' career has one foot in the grave. Who else is there?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Who would be your right back then? Personally I think Walker should be phased out due to his age at the next tournament. I'd gladly have White but they've not found a truce yet. James' career has one foot in the grave. Who else is there?

Livramento at Newcastle is a very good player. He should be one they start trying out. He could be another year away but with the scarcity of options, I'd give him a go.

 

[Beezerk]

Who would be your right back then? Personally I think Walker should be phased out due to his age at the next tournament. I'd gladly have White but they've not found a truce yet. James' career has one foot in the grave. Who else is there?

I’ve no idea to be honest, I don’t watch enough PL football to make a judgement like that. I do see enough of TAA though to be thoroughly unimpressed with his defending abilities.

 

[Orikoru]

I’ve no idea to be honest, I don’t watch enough PL football to make a judgement like that. I do see enough of TAA though to be thoroughly unimpressed with his defending abilities.

I see. So you're just a hater.

 

[PJ87]

Who would be your right back then? Personally I think Walker should be phased out due to his age at the next tournament. I'd gladly have White but they've not found a truce yet. James' career has one foot in the grave. Who else is there?

AWB

 

[PaulMdj]

Maybe it’s an age thing, but I’d have a back 4 as 4 out and out defenders, solid, good tacklers and not really looking to bomb forward at every opportunity.

Get a solid back 4 and you can allow your midfield/forwards to miss fire at times.

This modern thing of 2 ball playing centre halves and a “sweeper keeper” is just asking for trouble.

For me to have TAA in the starting Xl at England level you have to play a back 5.

 

[AmandaJR]

I’ve no idea to be honest, I don’t watch enough PL football to make a judgement like that. I do see enough of TAA though to be thoroughly unimpressed with his defending abilities.

His backtracking last night was woeful. Non existant in fact. Fair enough if your manager says get up the park but make some effort instead of a half assed jog. He and Lewis didn't work but Lewis did at least chase back like stink with his hair just about keeping up!

 

[AmandaJR]

The one positive from the night. Colwill's clearance off the line - amazing.

 

[Pin-seeker]

 

[Orikoru]

Maybe it’s an age thing, but I’d have a back 4 as 4 out and out defenders, solid, good tacklers and not really looking to bomb forward at every opportunity.

Get a solid back 4 and you can allow your midfield/forwards to miss fire at times.

This modern thing of 2 ball playing centre halves and a “sweeper keeper” is just asking for trouble.

For me to have TAA in the starting Xl at England level you have to play a back 5.

I don't mind having one of each. When I was starting to play Sunday League football, as a full back, the more experienced players always emphasised that if I see the other full back going forward, I stay back - you never both go together. Hence why earlier I said I'd have liked Colwill at LB given that Trent was RB.

At Spurs we have both full backs playing on the edge of the opposition box, and we leak stupid goals all the time.

 

[Orikoru]

View attachment 55344

Are we sure he really said either of those things? You can't be sure with Twitter, could be totally made-up quotes.

 

[Tashyboy]

The worst thing for me was the second goal.!

We tried something different it didn’t work ,fair enough.
But we got ourselves back into it by equalising .
But we failed to draw because we couldn’t manage the game in extra time.
Not losing would have been a decent result given how we played and how well Greece dealt with us.

It’s also my thinking that PL defenders are not that good.
Just look how many goals were scored last weekend.
Some of the defending last night would shame a pub team!

What was forgotten was that the goal came from the ball being hoofed forward. It was div 2 football and we couldn’t deal with it.

 

[chrisd]

It was a model that worked well for Roberto Carlos.

Well he's more like Trent Deadloss

 

[Bunkermagnet]

View attachment 55344

You're a bit slow with this...

 

[Billysboots]

Spot on
Liverpool employ a CB that covers him as they expect him to be out of position when going forward.

The space behind TAA last night was because Stones didn’t do that.

So he’s a wing back, then. That’s precisely the point I am trying to make.

If you are playing a flat back four with traditional full backs then there are far better out there than TAA. Aaron Wan-Bissaka is a way better traditional full back than TAA will ever be.

 

[Billysboots]

He’s not awful as a full back, that’s blatantly wrong, above average or good as a right back only, there is no way he has been a regular for Lpool or picked for England based purely on his play going forward.

I think you’re missing my point. Either that or you don’t entirely understand the difference between an attacking wing back and a defensive full back playing in a traditional flat back four.

 

[Tashyboy]

Maybe it’s an age thing, but I’d have a back 4 as 4 out and out defenders, solid, good tacklers and not really looking to bomb forward at every opportunity.

Get a solid back 4 and you can allow your midfield/forwards to miss fire at times.

This modern thing of 2 ball playing centre halves and a “sweeper keeper” is just asking for trouble.

For me to have TAA in the starting Xl at England level you have to play a back 5.

For me England have 2 options or a plan A and B.

Plan A four at the back. Four solid defenders. If that is the case, I think Walker is the best option. He will occasionally overlap but is solid ish.
Plan B, again four at the back, but the left or right full back drops into midfield like it happens at City and Liverpool. Occasionally Stones has done that at City.
plan A you use against any team especially the better teams. Plan B you use against the lesser teams. Use that against the top teams and it could be a rugby score.
Re last night it was not a friendly however much folk think it is a rammel tournament. Last nights formation was a million miles away from what we have seen before. But it is a formation fans have asked for. That being unleash Englands firepower. For me that was something that needed working on. It was something that was tried with some of Englands best players. Not a team that Southgate picked and you knew they would never play again especially at a tournament.
Whichever plan England go with be it A or B, I have serious reservations that either plan would work with just Rice trying to protect the back four.
Furthermore and a bigger problem for me is who is the midfield playmaker. Last night there just seemed to be no one sat in the middle knocking the ball left or right.

 

[PaulMdj]

What was forgotten was that the goal came from the ball being hoofed forward. It was div 2 football and we couldn’t deal with it.

It really wasn’t the inability to deal with just a hoofed ball forward, we had 2 or 3 chances after that around our 6 yard box, including falling over each other.

The lack of understanding and communication amongst the defence was staggering!

 

[Swango1980]

Just logged in after a round of golf, and as I expect lots of criticism.

My favourite take, and what I didn't expect, is that Cole Palmer is a light weight because he didn't get involved in a 20 man brawl. Honestly, some fans have the strangest thoughts

I'd have thought he is a pretty tough character. Not easy to be consistently just about the best player in the Premier League if you have a weak mentality. I'd have also thought there was no need for him to defend his team mates in the brawl, as it was unlikely anyone was going to get bottled or maimed. A shove to the chest if often survivable with a full recovery