The Footie Thread

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Arthur Wedge

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Absolutely immense, I wonder what the stats are for say like a Chelsea and a Everton over a similar time frame (post fergie)

Here is another

it's the number of times Man United have conceded three goals in a game since Fergie's retirement in 2013 -

Moyes - 5 times in 51 games (9.8%)
Van Gaal - 8 times in 103 games (7.7%)
Mourinho - 7 times in 144 games (4.9%)
Solskjaer - 14 times in 168 games (8.3%)
Ten Hag - 23 times in 123 games (18.7%
 

Lord Tyrion

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Everton has conceded 3 or more goals around 78 times since 2013
I can't be bothered to check out the spending difference between the two clubs for that period, or even starting a few years before to take into account existing players, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say it was pretty bloomin massive.

We aren't really the team to be compared against, I appreciate you were just answering a question.

Chelsea, arsenal, liverpool and city are fairer comparisons, perhaps Spurs as well.
 

Fade and Die

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Spot on - they will soon stop feigning injury

It’s still embarrassing that CL etc can have semi automated Offsides and yet we still can’t implement it
Exactly, I guesstimate that 90% of the time players stay down is to get the game stopped not because they are seriously hurt. If they know the game is going to carry on (and their team will be down a man) they will think again. Can’t see any downside of this idea.
 

Tashyboy

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It’s odd that last week we were encouraged to tone it down re Utd on here. It was Groundhog Day.
This week the Utd fans are giving there thoughts on yesterdays rammel and we have another week of Groundhog Day.
I can fully understand the whys and what’s. Especially after watching that rammel yesterday.
But sometimes you cannot defend the indefensible.
Some fans from Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea have not had to watch the rubbish Utd are regularly churning out now. As a City fan I can assure you I have a diploma in watching Rammel. And watching Utd is grade one Rammel. With all the problems that Utd have as a club eg Stadium, academy, Manager, team, squad. There is one common denominator. The Owners.
For me you can blame ETH all you like. But under the Glaziers, the Utd Brand has gone from a world class team and Stadium to mid table mediocrity and atrocious match day facilities for the fans.
You can bring in ZZ Or whoever, but the underlying problems still remain.
The Glaziers.
 

Arthur Wedge

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It’s odd that last week we were encouraged to tone it down re Utd on here. It was Groundhog Day.
This week the Utd fans are giving there thoughts on yesterdays rammel and we have another week of Groundhog Day.
I can fully understand the whys and what’s. Especially after watching that rammel yesterday.
But sometimes you cannot defend the indefensible.
Some fans from Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea have not had to watch the rubbish Utd are regularly churning out now. As a City fan I can assure you I have a diploma in watching Rammel. And watching Utd is grade one Rammel. With all the problems that Utd have as a club eg Stadium, academy, Manager, team, squad. There is one common denominator. The Owners.
For me you can blame ETH all you like. But under the Glaziers, the Utd Brand has gone from a world class team and Stadium to mid table mediocrity and atrocious match day facilities for the fans.
You can bring in ZZ Or whoever, but the underlying problems still remain.
The Glaziers.


The Glazers bought the club in 2005

They won 5 more league titles and also a CL

Whilst they were shocking in terms of pilling on debt and taking dividends out they still had success until Ferguson left

Since then the club have spent fortunes and employed many managers

Issues with the stadium can be pointed at the owners due to lack of investment in facilities but the play on the pitch ?!
 

Don Barzini

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Blimey. Don’t know if many of you have seen the storm on Twitter today about that Sheffield Wednesday “fan” who posted that vile message following their game against West Brom.

He’s lost his job, been banned from Hillsborough for life and his family have been targeted. What an idiot of the highest order.
 

Arthur Wedge

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Blimey. Don’t know if many of you have seen the storm on Twitter today about that Sheffield Wednesday “fan” who posted that vile message following their game against West Brom.

He’s lost his job, been banned from Hillsborough for life and his family have been targeted. What an idiot of the highest order.

Saw some of the stuff he posted - was disgusting , it’s good to see that things posted on social media have consequences , his family being targeted is poor and they shouldn’t have to deal with his actions

Looking through his history he posted a lot of stuff that was shocking

Hopefully it will make people think twice next time
 

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Now that I've had time to process the performance yesterday (and that I'm in the office, and want to waste a bit of time before getting started :) ), my summary for what its worth is (word count alert):

Apart from Liverpool, I've been generally much more impressed with Man Utd this season. Their biggest downfall was missing many big chances (by far the most in the league this season, according to Sky stats). But, there was some good play (style of play?), and looked much more solid defensively. Then yesterday happened, it was incredible. It almost felt like the entire squad had a huge party last night, got home at 6am, and were absolutely hanging by the time the match started.

It was never a red card, every pundit seems to be in agreement. VAR was completely impotent. However, there will be no pressure on the VAR (I don't blame the ref, sometimes a challenge looks far worse than it was, or vice versa), because Utd were that bad before the sending off, it really overshadows the bad decision. Different had the game been even. My biggest disappointment with the decision wasn't that it removed pretty much any hope of Utd getting back into the contest, which sometimes happens when they wake up. But, it gives those players and manager another excuse. I'd rather see them stay with 11 players, and have zero excuses. Either get back into the game, or deal with the scathing criticism.

Of course Rashford is not the only problem at Utd, but he has become the personification of so many frustrations that fans have had pre and post ETH. To me, Bruno is definitely in that camp as well. That first goal was terrible. Rashford would have known he wasn't going to get to the ball. His instinct should have been to make a challenge on van de Ven, or somehow impede his run as he got the ball. Instead, before van de Ven had even got the ball, Rashford had given up. It was like an attack versus defence drill, where you immediately lose when possession is lost, so it is time to stop and start the drill again. Awful, Then, as VDV runs forward, Bruno starts running towards him. Of course, with zero urgency or effort. It is like he runs everywhere to show he is dynamic, yet ironically is absolutely nowhere. I suspect Bruno's run initially fooled Ugarte, De Ligt and Mazaroui as they thought he would initially engage. They realised too late, and may well have been stunned by witnessing the pace and power of VDV for the first time, first hand. Yet, even then, Dalot completely gave up on Johnson at the back post, didn't even try to get back. You'd think that would be bread and butter for a full back, and Dalot has generally improved a lot over last couple of years. Again, looked like he was about to vomit from a big night out, and was in no shape to run back.

I'll always stand by the fact that ETH deserved time to work under the different regime, and work with a largely settled and fit set of players. Before rushing in, sacking him, getting a new man in and realising that a large number of the players are still a waste of space. I don't think you can really carry one player in the PL, let along 2, 3, 4, etc. But, a few more performances like that, I can see ETH being replaced, even if the only replacement is Gerrard, Lampard, Neville, Ole or Graham Norton. And, then I see the exact same cycle continuing.

My biggest criticism of ETH right now is his continuation of playing Bruno, and never subbing him. Especially with the likes of Eriksen and Mount fit again. I know it was only Barnsley that we beat 7-0, but it is one of those games I feel we might have only won by a goal or 2 had Bruno been playing. Because he always just wanders all over the pitch, and nobody ever really knows where he'll be at any given time. He gets the ball, and Hollywood passes it so often. When it comes off, it looks great on the highlights. But, the 90% of times it doesn't come off, he just gifts possession to the opposition, and wingers are knackers having chased a lost cause. When he played the false 9 at the end of last season, he played really well. But I wonder if that is because he had no choice but to stay in that position, and so there is more structure throughout the side?

The above seems obvious, I can't for one second think an experienced manager can't see the issues with individual performances. It surely cannot be his instruction to tell players like Rashford and Bruno to pull out of every single challenge, or not bother competing in an aerial duel. It can't be his instruction to tell full backs to not bother tracking the runner, or everyone making a complete mess of the most basic pass or 1st touch. I think Utd need to start being more ruthless with players, be less patient. If it isn't working out, just try and get rid asap whilst they still might have a bit of value for a buying club. Rather than keep them at club for years and years, watch awful performaces too often, and watch their value plummet until there is no point in getting rid until their contract runs out.

Away to Porto next, then away to Villa on Sunday. I was happy to give ETH roughly until Xmas, and then happy an informed decision was made either way then about his future. However, could potentially lose both the next 2 games, and then that could easily be the final nail(s) in the coffin. In a way, although it isn't what I want, it will be a relief because then we don't have to hear about the ETH show every day, and everyone can praise the new man in charge? Although, I'm that frustrated and disappointed with several of the Utd experienced players, that I'm almost past caring what happens. Had over a decade of them continually letting us down under many different managers, and there just seems to be this lethargic attitude, or a feeling players just take it for granted that they are at a big club, on big money, and they will just win games without having to even really try. Regardless of manager, we are meant to have a much more stable and capable board now, so if that is the case it is mainly on them to ensure Utd do well in the transfer market, and on them that the youth players are developed as best as possible.

On a positive note, Utd are only 8 points behind the leaders with plenty of games to go. Still time to push for a title challenge :unsure:

Starting with the red card you and the pundits think wasn’t a red. But it wasn’t a gentle yellow. It was either very clumsy or very nasty. It was close to a leg breaker. But did it deserve a red? I can see why it was a red, and to be honest I wouldn’t put too much effort into arguing against, harsh or otherwise. Equally, if a yellow had come out, I wouldn’t have argued with that either.

Rashford is only typical of the problem. I’m inclined to wonder who would be better if Rashford wasn’t picked. It would only be replacing like for like. Let’s be honest, apart from a few players out of a squad of many, just who is worthy of a Utd shirt? It’s barely a team. They are rank.

ETH’s recent press conferences paint a very poor picture. If he’s a Prem quality manager I’ll bare my bum in Woolies window. There isn’t a redeeming feature to any aspect of his management. If that isn’t obvious after 2 years…

I agree with getting rid of the dross asap. Do an Arsenal. Build with youth at the core over the next few seasons. It’s clear, rinse repeat, rinse repeat over the last x seasons doesn’t work. The back office is getting sorted but there’s no sign of it producing up front yet.

A positive note, only 8pts behind the leaders… what does that extrapolate out by the end of the season? 30pts behind City when they win the Prem again?
 

Billysboots

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Analysis on De Ligt , he was someone who was highly rated and went for a lot of money to Juve but struggled there and then went to Munich and didn’t fare so well

Along with Ugarte that’s two players were top teams were looking to offload them

We’ve been there before with regard to Ugarte, Phil.

PSG were happy to sell because the player did not suit Luis Enrique’s possession based brand of football. A manager favours players who can best put his plan into action and Ugarte was as suited to Enrique’s philosophy as di Maria was to LVG’s.

I know you are enjoying the ample opportunities United and ten Hag are giving you to take a swipe, but judging Ugarte on one Premier League start when the entire team was shambolic?

Come on, Phil. You can do better than that.
 

Swango1980

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We’ve been there before with regard to Ugarte, Phil.

PSG were happy to sell because the player did not suit Luis Enrique’s possession based brand of football. A manager favours players who can best put his plan into action and Ugarte was as suited to Enrique’s philosophy as di Maria was to LVG’s.

I know you are enjoying the ample opportunities United and ten Hag are giving you to take a swipe, but judging Ugarte on one Premier League start when the entire team was shambolic?

Come on, Phil. You can do better than that.
He was less hasty in writing off Nunez :)
 

Arthur Wedge

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We’ve been there before with regard to Ugarte, Phil.

PSG were happy to sell because the player did not suit Luis Enrique’s possession based brand of football. A manager favours players who can best put his plan into action and Ugarte was as suited to Enrique’s philosophy as di Maria was to LVG’s.

I know you are enjoying the ample opportunities United and ten Hag are giving you to take a swipe, but judging Ugarte on one Premier League start when the entire team was shambolic?

Come on, Phil. You can do better than that.

He is not suited in anyway to the pace of the prem , he was pulled from pillar to post and provided zero protection , he was running in quick sand , turning circle of a rubbish truck - he had no mobility at all - sorry but it’s another £50mil wasted
 
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