The Footie Thread

[HomerJSimpson]

That’s complete nonsense - plenty of players have been shown to be shocking within in games , these are international experienced playars - some suit the prem some don’t , it’s clear when some are very much unsuited but some try and excuse poor signings by saying “give them a season” - you don’t spend £50mil for international players to “give them a season”

Some may not suit some teams tactics but there are plenty that just don’t suit the pace of the prem

And yes players are judged from the minute the walk on the pitch, if they aren’t ready then shove them in the reserves or play them in cup games etc

You don't need to give them a season but definitely more than one game. How many Liverpool players didn't shine on debut over the years? Did they get binned?

 

[GreiginFife]

Extremist out on both sides I see. You can't fairly write a player off after one game. Just like we can't judge our golfing ability solely on one round.

But it doesn't take a whole season to recognise if a player is good enough or not. If it takes you a whole season to do that, then you aren't paying enough attention (or it's one of your team's marquee signings and you are just hoping beyond hope).

Plenty of "world class" players move league to league and their style just doesn't suit some of the leagues.

 

[Pin-seeker]

You don't half spout some absolute rubbish at times, I would be embarassed to log on. Its' why football has such a bad rep, absolute rubbish about absolute rubbish and thinking it's Shakespeare.

Not sure he even knows Liverpool are top of the league,more obsessed with utd

 

[PJ87]

Extremist out on both sides I see. You can't fairly write a player off after one game. Just like we can't judge our golfing ability solely on one round.

But it doesn't take a whole season to recognise if a player is good enough or not. If it takes you a whole season to do that, then you aren't paying enough attention (or it's one of your team's marquee signings and you are just hoping beyond hope).

Plenty of "world class" players move league to league and their style just doesn't suit some of the leagues.

One season is for a player to settle. Players take time, they don't always gel at a club straight away. Got to settle in a new country

Havertz for example many didn't think he was any good , he's moved clubs because arsenal saw his ability and saw how they could use him

Salah and kdb were sold by Chelsea and deemed not good enough but came back when a bit older and are 2 of the best players in the league over the past 5 years

Sometimes it's timing, sometimes it's settling

 

[Swango1980]

Not sure he even knows Liverpool are top of the league,more obsessed with utd

Liverpool won on Saturday. I think he has posted one Liverpool related post?

Man Utd lose on Sunday. Not sure how many Utd related posts he had posted, but they started before Utd even played.

You might have a point. Thankfully, he sometimes makes points that seem so absurd, and steeped in bias, that it is easier to just let him dig his own hole deeper

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Liverpool won on Saturday. I think he has posted one Liverpool related post?

Man Utd lose on Sunday. Not sure how many Utd related posts he had posted, but they started before Utd even played.

You might have a point. Thankfully, he sometimes makes points that seem so absurd, and steeped in bias, that it is easier to just let him dig his own hole deeper

Imagine what happens if Liverpool lose

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Extremist out on both sides I see. You can't fairly write a player off after one game. Just like we can't judge our golfing ability solely on one round.

But it doesn't take a whole season to recognise if a player is good enough or not. If it takes you a whole season to do that, then you aren't paying enough attention (or it's one of your team's marquee signings and you are just hoping beyond hope).

Plenty of "world class" players move league to league and their style just doesn't suit some of the leagues.

When it comes to urgate it’s not just one game , it’s the season before at PSG and in the CL - he struggled badly especially against pace he was chased by a number of clubs 18 months ago and PSG got him , we were rumoured to be in for him as well but last season he struggled both on and off the ball and PSG wanted shot ,I was more than happy to say even before that he won’t be suited to the Prem and I’m happy to stick to that .

Teams will target his lack of mobility just as they will target De Ligt poor positioning

 

[Slime]

Phil, it's not urgate it's Ugarte.
If you're going to slaughter someone time and time again, at least have the manners to get his name right.

 

[GreiginFife]

One season is for a player to settle. Players take time, they don't always gel at a club straight away. Got to settle in a new country

Havertz for example many didn't think he was any good , he's moved clubs because arsenal saw his ability and saw how they could use him

Salah and kdb were sold by Chelsea and deemed not good enough but came back when a bit older and are 2 of the best players in the league over the past 5 years

Sometimes it's timing, sometimes it's settling

You're conflating two things there with Havertz, it was less to do with settling and more to do with systems and compatibility.

Chelsea are not really a yardstick in judging players prematurely. There can also be exceptions rather than rules but for the most part it should not a year to see if a player has potential or is just simply not suited. Yeah, he might find his feet in 2 maybe 3 years but that's not how football works.

I will say that I disagree with you and move on.

 

[PJ87]

Imagine what happens if Liverpool lose

 

[PJ87]

You're conflating two things there with Havertz, it was less to do with settling and more to do with systems and compatibility.

Chelsea are not really a yardstick in judging players prematurely. There can also be exceptions rather than rules but for the most part it should not a year to see if a player has potential or is just simply not suited. Yeah, he might find his feet in 2 maybe 3 years but that's not how football works.

But I appreciate that debating you on any subject is a lost cause and so will say that I disagree with you and move on.

Havertz was a case of both tho. He came over as a very very young player and then COVID hit. The guy was living alone in a hotel. So it was tougher to settle than normal

Expected better of you greig tbh

 

[GreiginFife]

When it comes to urgate it’s not just one game , it’s the season before at PSG and in the CL - he struggled badly especially against pace he was chased by a number of clubs 18 months ago and PSG got him , we were rumoured to be in for him as well but last season he struggled both on and off the ball and PSG wanted shot ,I was more than happy to say even before that he won’t be suited to the Prem and I’m happy to stick to that .

Teams will target his lack of mobility just as they will target De Ligt poor positioning

It's hard to judge when the league itself is slower and less "technical" (or so we keep getting told). You yourself have said that the Premier League is a different animal and so judging a single player on a single game in a new league is extreme, but then so is waiting a whole season.

 

[Bdill93]

What happens if theres a turnover in play, ball gets played up into the vicinity of the injured player/physios and the ball hits the physio and goes out of play. What happens next?

Its not hard to get your head around, its a crazy suggestion that wont improve the football on the pitch.

VAR as software is great. How it is used and implemented is poor. It was implemented by an ex head of Rugby.

I addressed that - your team have a choice to play on with you down receiving treatment or to then kick it out.

Its also not about improving the football on the pitch - that's for coaches in the week - its about keeping the ball in play, less breaks in the game and free flowing football.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You're conflating two things there with Havertz, it was less to do with settling and more to do with systems and compatibility.

Chelsea are not really a yardstick in judging players prematurely. There can also be exceptions rather than rules but for the most part it should not a year to see if a player has potential or is just simply not suited. Yeah, he might find his feet in 2 maybe 3 years but that's not how football works.

But I appreciate that debating you on any subject is a lost cause and so will say that I disagree with you and move on.

Havertz played 3 seasons at Chelsea and was at times one of their better players , for a deep 9 he scored over 30 goals including the winner in the CL final

He is clearly a talented player in the right team

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It's hard to judge when the league itself is slower and less "technical" (or so we keep getting told). You yourself have said that the Premier League is a different animal and so judging a single player on a single game in a new league is extreme, but then so is waiting a whole season.

My viewpoint is that he struggled with the pace in a less intense league then it’s going to be even worse in the Prem , he is a very physical player who likes a strong tackle and did well in Portugal

 

[Norrin Radd]

If utd get shot of ten hag at Christmas ,I'm sure that Sean Dyche will be available

 

[GreiginFife]

Havertz played 3 seasons at Chelsea and was at times one of their better players , for a deep 9 he scored over 30 goals including the winner in the CL final

He is clearly a talented player in the right team

I'm not arguing Havertz wasn't a "decent" player for Chelsea. I was pointing out that the derision that he received was not one of settling but one of the craziness of the systems Chelsea have played over the last 5 or 6 seasons.

Talented in the right team is exactly the point I WAS making

 

[PJ87]

Havertz played 3 seasons at Chelsea and was at times one of their better players , for a deep 9 he scored over 30 goals including the winner in the CL final

He is clearly a talented player in the right team

Seem to remember some guy called Liverpool Phil laughing when arsenal signed him for 65 million, waste of money etc etc

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Seem to remember some guy called Liverpool Phil laughing when arsenal signed him for 65 million, waste of money etc etc

Yes because I didn’t think he was the right signing at that money

It’s called an opinion and sometimes they are wrong

Maybe it’s something you need to learn yourself

 

[HomerJSimpson]

When it comes to urgate it’s not just one game , it’s the season before at PSG and in the CL - he struggled badly especially against pace he was chased by a number of clubs 18 months ago and PSG got him , we were rumoured to be in for him as well but last season he struggled both on and off the ball and PSG wanted shot ,I was more than happy to say even before that he won’t be suited to the Prem and I’m happy to stick to that .

Teams will target his lack of mobility just as they will target De Ligt poor positioning

85 games for Sporting
37 for PSG
23 international caps

Don't think he's struggled too much