crdb
Member
This is where I start to worry, southgates play style has worked so far (although I thought it didn't for 90 mins yesterday) but something needs to change for the next stages
Swango1980
Well-known member
Fair enough. Although I didn't hear what was said, as I tend to zone out on anything Lee Dixon has to say
Orikoru
Tour Winner
You have a very loose definition of 'worked'. If you mean simply that we're not out yet, then yeah I guess it worked. It doesn't work by any other measure.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Listening to a few interviews after the game.
The players come across as if they think they have played well.
I think Declan Rice thinks he was playing for Spain.
I wonder if they still think the same after watching it back today.?
The players come across as if they think they have played well.
I think Declan Rice thinks he was playing for Spain.
I wonder if they still think the same after watching it back today.?
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Must admit I never heard World Beaters mentioned.
I was pretty relaxed yesterday, will be for the Switzerland game. We have been awful so had we lost yesterday there could have been no complaints. Same again for Switzerland. No edge of the seat stuff thinking, 'we could win this', feeling all excited. I'm sat there thinking, 'this is awful, we don't deserve to go through'. The Slovakia keeper should have had the game of his life yesterday, we should have battered the goal. His shirt is probably good to go without a wash.
Gareth wont change, it is not what he does. He should have changed things for yesterdays game but he didn't. It was obvious that changes were needed, he is too stubborn though. So, we will go out, his record will look good on paper and over time people will go, 'didn't Gareth do well at tournaments, people should be grateful for what he did'
Gareth wont change, it is not what he does. He should have changed things for yesterdays game but he didn't. It was obvious that changes were needed, he is too stubborn though. So, we will go out, his record will look good on paper and over time people will go, 'didn't Gareth do well at tournaments, people should be grateful for what he did'
That's because it was never said. It really was not, nor was it thought. How could it have been? Even a heavily drunk, high and deluded fan would not be thinking that, and let's face it, that is who is interviewed after a game. There is nothing coherent about a fans interview after a match and even they knew yesterday it was rubbish.Must admit I never heard World Beaters mentioned.
crdb
Member
Exactly that, we're through which is all that really matters, just hope we find a spark on saturday
Orikoru
Tour Winner
That seems to be the player's mindset when you hear them interviewed as well, but I don't agree. For the first couple of group games, yes, just get the result and move on. But by the third game and the knockouts you need to know how you're playing at least, and finding some form that will take you through the next week. Otherwise you'll definitely come unstuck when you play someone decent who knows what they're doing. And this Saturday we're playing someone decent who knows what they're doing, so we're out of time on that front.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
The players will always say the "right" thing as opposed to what they actually might be thinking. All part of the training now sadly. I would love someone to come out with a Keeganesque rant but it'll never happen
If we have not had a spark for 4 games, where is it going to come from now? That is slightly unfair on some of the subs that have impacted late on but you get the gist. New game, factory reset back to dross. We have not improved as a team since the first game, no growing into the tournament, no change in how we play. Genuine question, what do you think will change, or are you going on blind faith that surely, surely, we must get better? (which is what we football fans frequently rely on
)
crdb
Member
I don't know, we seemed to create a lot more chances yesterday, just the final piece of the puzzle we missed out on. First 60 mins I was listening on the radio & from what I heard it was 90% england attacks that 'just missed' & Slovakia's goal.If we have not had a spark for 4 games, where is it going to come from now? That is slightly unfair on some of the subs that have impacted late on but you get the gist. New game, factory reset back to dross. We have not improved as a team since the first game, no growing into the tournament, no change in how we play. Genuine question, what do you think will change, or are you going on blind faith that surely, surely, we must get better? (which is what we football fans frequently rely on
I do have a lot of faith in this team
Whereditgo
Journeyman Pro
Perhaps you need to watch the game then - because that reads like it was written by Southgate (or his mum!).
crdb
Member
that maybe true but we are where we are, might not be convincing but we've got the job done. This week is our biggest test, so just got to see who turns up & wants it more, and for us it seems the players on the bench do
Swango1980
Well-known member
In my mind, there is no doubt that Gareth Southgate will be one of the most over-rated managers of all time. Personally, I think he could be a contender for worst England manager for as far back as I remember (Bobby Robson days I can remember back to). And there have been some very bad England managers, albeit some of them weren't blessed with the best set of England players at the time, other nations were ridiculously strong and/or maybe the fine margins didn't go their way at the right time.I was pretty relaxed yesterday, will be for the Switzerland game. We have been awful so had we lost yesterday there could have been no complaints. Same again for Switzerland. No edge of the seat stuff thinking, 'we could win this', feeling all excited. I'm sat there thinking, 'this is awful, we don't deserve to go through'. The Slovakia keeper should have had the game of his life yesterday, we should have battered the goal. His shirt is probably good to go without a wash.
Gareth wont change, it is not what he does. He should have changed things for yesterdays game but he didn't. It was obvious that changes were needed, he is too stubborn though. So, we will go out, his record will look good on paper and over time people will go, 'didn't Gareth do well at tournaments, people should be grateful for what he did'
But, because of the stages in tournaments England have managed to scrape their way into over Southgate's tenure, he is suddenly being hailed by some as the best English manager since Ramsey, or at least the most "successful" as if that it meant to be some sort of big tick in his style of management. Yet, everything has gone his way. He has inherited a fantastic set of players, at a time when the other big nations don't look as strong as they once did and received extremely favourable draws in tournaments. And yet, as soon as England have come up against any of the better sides in important games, they end up packing their bags.
Perhaps some England fans are just extremely grateful that Southgate hasn't managed the team to any embarrassing defeats such as being eliminated by Iceland. Maybe that is enough to hail Southgate as an England great for them? However, last night was very nearly his Iceland moment. And, it probably should have been. Pathetic that he stuck to exactly the same rigid plan from the start, that has clearly struggled for the 3 matches before. Pathetic he decided no changes were needed at half time. Pathetic that his first sub was in 66th minute, and I think that was almost forced on him as Trippier got a knock. Pathetic that he then waited until 84th minute to bring on Eze and 94th minute to bring on Toney. And then in the second half of extra time, at least questionable to bring off Kane and Bellingham for Gallagher and Konsa, and basically looking to invite Slovakia on and try and absorb the pressure (which has felt like classic England even before Southgate became manager).
All that being said, I'm so intrigued how he will start next Saturday, in England's 5th game of the tournament. It will almost be hilarious if he sticks to the same basic rigid plan.
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nickjdavis
Head Pro
"Just missed" getting in to the penalty area maybe.
I think they must have been commentating on a different game, I don't remember seeing that many chances
.I admire your faith, it left me a while ago
I’m not sure I can agree that we created lots of chances. Two attempts on goal on 120 minutes against that opposition tells its own story.
As for the Switzerland game, I’m really torn. Whilst I’d love to see England play a more expansive and attacking game, I’m equally conscious if we score first in the opening quarter of the game, we’ll spend the remainder defending the edge of our own eighteen yard box.
I can’t believe that was the approach adopted immediately we went 2-1 up last night. We invited Slovakia onto us and almost came unstuck. It’s a dreadful tactic, but one Southgate will never depart from.
As for the Switzerland game, I’m really torn. Whilst I’d love to see England play a more expansive and attacking game, I’m equally conscious if we score first in the opening quarter of the game, we’ll spend the remainder defending the edge of our own eighteen yard box.
I can’t believe that was the approach adopted immediately we went 2-1 up last night. We invited Slovakia onto us and almost came unstuck. It’s a dreadful tactic, but one Southgate will never depart from.
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
If we have not had a spark for 4 games, where is it going to come from now? That is slightly unfair on some of the subs that have impacted late on but you get the gist. New game, factory reset back to dross. We have not improved as a team since the first game, no growing into the tournament, no change in how we play. Genuine question, what do you think will change, or are you going on blind faith that surely, surely, we must get better? (which is what we football fans frequently rely on
Agree. Having sat through the rubbish that made up our group stage I really thought that we'd see a different performance level now we're into the knockouts however it was pretty much a carbon copy of the first 3 performances. I see absolutely no reason to expect anything else against the Swiss and we are exceptionally lucky to be there.
I also thought that the the celebration from Kane and Bellingham after our equaliser was embarrassing. The pair of them, going to the crowd and making some sort of 'chest puffed out / look at us' type stance. The goal was the single moment of quality within the 95 minutes and the celebration suggested that it was possibly the 4th or 5th goal of the night.
road2ruin
Q-School Graduate
We didn't have a shot on target until the 94th minute when Bellingham scored. If anything Slovakia looked the more likely to add to their goal. We were absolutely useless.
