The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

Turn it on its head.
Your league position dictates what you can spend next season ( if you have it)
So top teams can spend less on a sliding scale.

If it’s all about money then better players will go to lower clubs.
This over years will even the sport up imo.
By making clubs run their buisness better

Won’t work unless it’s Europe wide.!

I think the new rules are something along the lines of then spending is limited to a certain percentage of the highest income or something along the lines ?

The Europe wide is an issue but I think UEFA ( as bad as they are ) know that the Prem clubs are huge for the income - if the Prem looked at rules then UEFA would look at the same for the CL entry

 

[Tashyboy]

One of the wonders of the world

 

[PaulMdj]

If any other business was run with the debts that all the top clubs have they wouldn't be in business!

New owners wouldn’t be under such restrictions either.

 

[PaulMdj]

To sort out the club off the field and to start building the stadium up to bring in the higher levels of commercial income to allow the club to spend more

Weird that like! You were $350 mil in debt in 2010.

Current owners have done good, but even now you have supporters who disagree how they’ve run the Club whilst making Billions of yous.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

If any other business was run with the debts that all the top clubs have they wouldn't be in business!

I guess it’s what kind of debt

Man Utd have huge loans with banks - but the banks know they are earning a fortune from those loans being serviced - Man Utd are a commercial machine

There are some that are in debt to the owner for various things - but some of the owners would either wipe it off or just waiting until the club is sold to help pay it off

The Premier League is just a huge commercial enterprise , for me one of the biggest issues is the gaps between the leagues

We shouldn’t been at a stage where the 3 teams coming up are the 3 most likely to go down

was it Derby who got promoted then won the league the next season ?! I don’t think we will ever see that again

It’s a shame there is no way to have all the leagues under the same governing body and that the telly money etc is filtered down more

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Weird that like! You were $350 mil in debt in 2010.

Current owners have done good, but even now you have supporters who disagree how they’ve run the Club whilst making Billions of yous.

We were in debt to the banks in 2010 and under their control. It was a complete mess because we had two guys who tried to do it all on leveraged debt

It took FSG coming in to sort it out , get the commercial side sorted , get the stadium sorted

But there will always be fans shouting at them because they don’t spend their own money to buy players , that’s how mad it is now - a club that’s run sustainable is seen by some of its own fans as being rubbish way to work

 

[PaulMdj]

We were in debt to the banks in 2010 and under their control. It was a complete mess because we had two guys who tried to do it all on leveraged debt

It took FSG coming in to sort it out , get the commercial side sorted , get the stadium sorted

But there will always be fans shouting at them because they don’t spend their own money to buy players , that’s how mad it is now - a club that’s run sustainable is seen by some of its own fans as being rubbish way to work

So not 20 years then, only since FSG, before that yous were no better than anyone else!

 

[Hobbit]

So not 20 years then, only since FSG, before that yous were no better than anyone else!

As long as a debt is serviced there’s no harm in it. However, reckless owners can’t control interest rates and inflation - 2008/9 springs to mind. I’d like to see the controlling bodies insist on a bond of twice the operating capital, as banks are told to hold, to cover unexpected global pressures.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So not 20 years then, only since FSG, before that yous were no better than anyone else!

Sorry I meant that it took FSG arriving for the club to sort it self out and realise the level of commercial potential income that could be generated and also a new stadium

As long as a debt is serviced there’s no harm in it. However, reckless owners can’t control interest rates and inflation - 2008/9 springs to mind. I’d like to see the controlling bodies insist on a bond of twice the operating capital, as banks are told to hold, to cover unexpected global pressures.

Bonds is something that’s been mentioned a few times - the owner needs to put money somewhere that will ensure the club is safe , it’s a shame there are some that buy a club thinking it can be a gold mine for them but then realising it needs work to get to that stage

 

[PaulMdj]

As long as a debt is serviced there’s no harm in it. However, reckless owners can’t control interest rates and inflation - 2008/9 springs to mind. I’d like to see the controlling bodies insist on a bond of twice the operating capital, as banks are told to hold, to cover unexpected global pressures.

Totally agree, I’d also like everyone to be run the way FSG run LPool, unfortunately neither will ever happen and the game remains broken.

 

[Hobbit]

Totally agree, I’d also like everyone to be run the way FSG run LPool, unfortunately neither will ever happen and the game remains broken.

The big problem is a set of financial rules like that need to be agreed Europe wide. If they’re not, the countries that are allowed a free for all have an advantage.

 

[GB72]

There is a simple solution to all of the issues mentioned that will never happen. You cap spending based on the revenue of the lowest earning club. That would cut spending across the board and massively reduce the gap between the Premier League and the Championship. Apply it across all leagues and you would suddenly have balance. Pretty simple really but then the Premier League would not rake it in as the self proclaimed greatest league in the world, the ability to challenge in Europe would also plummet (unless you believe the line that spending in Europe is only high to try and keep up with Premier League spending and if that were cut, the other clubs in Europe would happily cut spending. There is a fair case to argue that the Premier League are the cause of wage and transfer fee inflation).

 

[PaulMdj]

The big problem is a set of financial rules like that need to be agreed Europe wide. If they’re not, the countries that are allowed a free for all have an advantage.

Even with such rules I can’t see how you’d get everyone to an equal starting point, some wouldn’t be willing to give that much up.

 

[Neilds]

Totally agree, I’d also like everyone to be run the way FSG run LPool, unfortunately neither will ever happen and the game remains broken.

But Liverpool are still (depending on which figures you read) between £150 and £250 million in debt - and this is increasing every year with a large wage bill. If these debts got called in they would have to sell the star players and pay less, which would mean less victories, less sponsorship, etc.

As I said earlier, how many other companies could run with a debt that high?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There is a simple solution to all of the issues mentioned that will never happen. You cap spending based on the revenue of the lowest earning club. That would cut spending across the board and massively reduce the gap between the Premier League and the Championship. Apply it across all leagues and you would suddenly have balance. Pretty simple really but then the Premier League would not rake it in as the self proclaimed greatest league in the world, the ability to challenge in Europe would also plummet (unless you believe the line that spending in Europe is only high to try and keep up with Premier League spending and if that were cut, the other clubs in Europe would happily cut spending. There is a fair case to argue that the Premier League are the cause of wage and transfer fee inflation).

Sadly that is a utopian dream. Not only would the PL never go for it but nor would any league in Europe or UEFA so it will remain an unbalanced playing field. Look at the majority of the top leagues and as with PL only a handful can win it each season. PSG a classic example

 

[Hobbit]

Even with such rules I can’t see how you’d get everyone to an equal starting point, some wouldn’t be willing to give that much up.

They don’t have to be at an equal starting point. All they need to be able to do is be able to service their debt and hold enough in a bond for a rainy day. Some clubs will always have more available cash, and why should they be penalised for it…

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But Liverpool are still (depending on which figures you read) between £150 and £250 million in debt - and this is increasing every year with a large wage bill. If these debts got called in they would have to sell the star players and pay less, which would mean less victories, less sponsorship, etc.

As I said earlier, how many other companies could run with a debt that high?

The debt the club has is infrastructure debt - it went from £49 mil to £123mil due to the inter club loan for the construction of the Anny Road stand

There is also a credit line which I believe all clubs have which is used for every day ( if you can every day stuff ) in football , paying fees etc

I think every club has some level of debt against it , but the way the club runs it’s all financed through the income , the loans will be paid off by the club earnings etc.

It certainly is mad when you see the level of debt clubs are in across the board

 

[PaulMdj]

They don’t have to be at an equal starting point. All they need to be able to do is be able to service their debt and hold enough in a bond for a rainy day. Some clubs will always have more available cash, and why should they be penalised for it…

They are now.

 

[PaulMdj]

But Liverpool are still (depending on which figures you read) between £150 and £250 million in debt - and this is increasing every year with a large wage bill. If these debts got called in they would have to sell the star players and pay less, which would mean less victories, less sponsorship, etc.

As I said earlier, how many other companies could run with a debt that high?

It’s not that high though in the grand scheme of thinks, FSG bought Lpool for £300 mil, Club is now reputed to be worth £4 Billion.

 

[Hobbit]

But Liverpool are still (depending on which figures you read) between £150 and £250 million in debt - and this is increasing every year with a large wage bill. If these debts got called in they would have to sell the star players and pay less, which would mean less victories, less sponsorship, etc.

As I said earlier, how many other companies could run with a debt that high?

I can’t remember the accounting terms but, bizarrely, there’s different types of debt. Operating debt, money in money out isn’t untypical of most businesses. Your buy raw materials with a loan from the bank and sell it at a profit, the majority of the money pays off the loan = a profitable business.

A mortgage outside of the operating costs/profits will show on the balance sheet under a different header/cost centre. A percentage of the profit mentioned earlier goes towards servicing this debt.

The business is in the red because of the mortgage but is making an operating profit.