The Footie Thread

[PaulMdj]

Look at the likes of Brighton , Fulham - get a very talented manager , a very good scouting system and buy smartly

It’s a slow process and will need time to build any club

Look at Villa , again buying well , getting a good manager in and building a good team

Spending lots of money isn’t always any guarantee for any level of success

There is no magic formula - a lot of any team doing well it’s down to recruiting well and the structure above

Everton in the past spent a good amount within the rules but spent poorly

That’s where a lot of clubs go wrong

Brighton, Fulham, Everton, won nothing, best players sold.

Round of applause for being feeder Clubs.

Villa, owners sold the hotel at the ground to another of the owners companies to stop falling foul of FFP. (A legal way of money laundering money) which Chelsea also did.

Can you give us the timeline for “slow process?

 

[Don Barzini]

Fulham - get a very talented manager , a very good scouting system and buy smartly

Fulham have yo-yo'd in recent years, had parachute payments and a decent Prem-level squad (or near to it) to back up their latest stint in the top tier (see the diagram I posted).

Brighton have done great no doubt. They appear to be the exception and not the rule. And the wheels have fallen off a bit this season.

Newly promoted teams who haven't got the benefit of parachute payments are not on the same footing. No matter how you dress up PSR, the very model of it keeps The Big Six protected at the expense of the rest.

 

[Neilds]

Look at the likes of Brighton , Fulham - get a very talented manager , a very good scouting system and buy smartly

It’s a slow process and will need time to build any club

Look at Villa , again buying well , getting a good manager in and building a good team

Spending lots of money isn’t always any guarantee for any level of success

There is no magic formula - a lot of any team doing well it’s down to recruiting well and the structure above

Everton in the past spent a good amount within the rules but spent poorly

That’s where a lot of clubs go wrong

I’m sure they mentioned yesterday that WBA have got to the playoffs without paying a single transfer fee this season

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Fulham have yo-yo'd in recent years, had parachute payments and a decent Prem-level squad (or near to it) to back up their latest stint in the top tier (see the diagram I posted).

Brighton have done great no doubt. They appear to be the exception and not the rule. And the wheels have fallen off a bit this season.

Newly promoted teams who haven't got the benefit of parachute payments are not on the same footing. No matter how you dress up PSR, the very model of it keeps The Big Six protected at the expense of the rest.

And we spent the parachute payment on a new squad that failed epically and we had a season long stay before going down again. Yes we benefitted from more parachute payments but that isn't a sustainable way of building a side that is capable of playing well enough to stay in the PL. Silva has done well with limited resources but with Toisin going as a free agent, Mitrovic being a mercenary for the cash, Willian approaching retirement then it will be another rebuild this season and we are lacking in so many areas

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Brighton, Fulham, Everton, won nothing, best players sold.

Round of applause for being feeder Clubs.

Villa, owners sold the hotel at the ground to another of the owners companies to stop falling foul of FFP. (A legal way of money laundering money) which Chelsea also did.

Can you give us the timeline for “slow process?

How many trophies are there , does every club expect their club to be winning trophies ?

clubs spend money - a lot of it , if they spent better they may well be able to progress through. Villa haven’t spent silly money.

The sport needs to be sustainable, everyone knows the rules , they know how much they can spend based on how much they earn , clubs can market themselves better , bring in more money and build

City “allegedly” cheated the system and through their spending has given them is suspect 6 titles out of the last 7 - that’s the league you get went sovereign wealth hits the sport and some want to see clubs spending whatever they want

The whole sport is a financial mess, it’s now seen as not good enough if a club just spends what it makes.

 

[PaulMdj]

And we spent the parachute payment on a new squad that failed epically and we had a season long stay before going down again. Yes we benefitted from more parachute payments but that isn't a sustainable way of building a side that is capable of playing well enough to stay in the PL. Silva has done well with limited resources but with Toisin going as a free agent, Mitrovic being a mercenary for the cash, Willian approaching retirement then it will be another rebuild this season and we are lacking in so many areas

Outside the top 6 you get an “outsider” having a good season, possibly dipping their toes in the waters of European Football and then staying 8th-16th, that is seen as doing well, for which us fans should be grateful.

You should really know your place!

 

[Beezerk]

Here we go

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Fulham have yo-yo'd in recent years, had parachute payments and a decent Prem-level squad (or near to it) to back up their latest stint in the top tier (see the diagram I posted).

Brighton have done great no doubt. They appear to be the exception and not the rule. And the wheels have fallen off a bit this season.

Newly promoted teams who haven't got the benefit of parachute payments are not on the same footing. No matter how you dress up PSR, the very model of it keeps The Big Six protected at the expense of the rest.

When a club arrives into the Premiership your increased revenue is anywhere around £100mil

Some clubs will spend that straight away to look to stay up and some like Luton will use that to fund a new stadium and build up

Yes the gap from Premiership to Championship is too big - that’s down to greed from the Prem clubs and not wanting to filter the money down more

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Outside the top 6 you get an “outsider” having a good season, possibly dipping their toes in the waters of European Football and then staying 8th-16th, that is seen as doing well, for which us fans should be grateful.

You should really know your place!

Why should fans be "grateful". They pay significant amounts of cash to follow their side, especially if they go home and away as I use to (82 grounds with Fulham) and want their clubs to be aspirational and try and attract the best players possible. If things are done well on a season by season basis as Brighton have shown then it is possible to progress towards European football.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

If people are going to asterisk City's titles then you may as well asterisk every other teams for the past 30 years. Teams buy titles. Liverpool have, Utd have, Chelsea have, City have. You can probably excuse Leicester but them alone. The other teams didn't have rules to stop them but they spent the same way City did. City scared the begeebers out of the established big boys so they brought these new rules in to try to stop them. Nobody but fans of the big few care what City did because they've seen those other teams doing it for years. It's a massive hypocrisy.

 

[PaulMdj]

How many trophies are there , does every club expect their club to be winning trophies ?

clubs spend money - a lot of it , if they spent better they may well be able to progress through. Villa haven’t spent silly money.

The sport needs to be sustainable, everyone knows the rules , they know how much they can spend based on how much they earn , clubs can market themselves better , bring in more money and build

City “allegedly” cheated the system and through their spending has given them is suspect 6 titles out of the last 7 - that’s the league you get went sovereign wealth hits the sport and some want to see clubs spending whatever they want

The whole sport is a financial mess, it’s now seen as not good enough if a club just spends what it makes.

I expect every Club to have ambition, it seems these days some Clubs are expected to happy by simply having PL Football.

Virtually every Club has spent beyond their means to get the place were they become self sustainable, Lpool, City are good examples of this.

But the current system stops this, how ridiculous is it that Newcastle maybe forced to sell their better players to stay inside the current rules!

Which Clubs will be able to afford to buy them? Newcastle could be in a semi-state of rebuilding every year! How is that fair?

Have a look at the Net Spen table for the last 5 years! Villa are 7th, what do you define as silly money!

Premier League net spend table over the last five years

Forget the league table, it's all about the Premier League net spend table. And Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Tottenham are ahead of the other 16.

www.football365.com

 

[Arthur Wedge]

If people are going to asterisk City's titles then you may as well asterisk every other teams for the past 30 years. Teams buy titles. Liverpool have, Utd have, Chelsea have, City have. You can probably excuse Leicester but them alone. The other teams didn't have rules to stop them but they spent the same way City did. City scared the begeebers out of the established big boys so they brought these new rules in to try to stop them. Nobody but fans of the big few care what City did because they've seen those other teams doing it for years. It's a massive hypocrisy.

Any “asterisk” assigned to City’s trophy wins won’t be because of the £1.5 billion they spent on players but because of the potential rules they have broken whilst spending that money

If City or whoever are spending money within the rules or money that the club have earned then I don’t suspect many will be putting any “asterisk” next to any trophy

It’s never about how much as someone like Man Utd have spent more - it’s about spending within the rules set up by the governing bodies

 

[Neilds]

When a club arrives into the Premiership your increased revenue is anywhere around £100mil

Some clubs will spend that straight away to look to stay up and some like Luton will use that to fund a new stadium and build up

Yes the gap from Premiership to Championship is too big - that’s down to greed from the Prem clubs and not wanting to filter the money down more

The gap from Championship to L1 is just as big. Rotherham Utd have a squad value of about £15-17 million so how can they compete with the clubs who still get premier league money?
The top 2 divisions are both split into 3 bands with the same teams at the top, middle and bottom most years.

 

[PaulMdj]

Why should fans be "grateful". They pay significant amounts of cash to follow their side, especially if they go home and away as I use to (82 grounds with Fulham) and want their clubs to be aspirational and try and attract the best players possible. If things are done well on a season by season basis as Brighton have shown then it is possible to progress towards European football.

Because we are told that by fans of the big 6!
Brighton must be on a blip, because without the points deduction they’d be level with us.

As I said, they had a foray in to Europe, then lost their best players to big 6 clubs, now rebuilding!

Wolves a few seasons back, Burnley, West ham last year, few of these clubs are consistently in Europe or there or there abouts.

 

[PaulMdj]

If people are going to asterisk City's titles then you may as well asterisk every other teams for the past 30 years. Teams buy titles. Liverpool have, Utd have, Chelsea have, City have. You can probably excuse Leicester but them alone. The other teams didn't have rules to stop them but they spent the same way City did. City scared the begeebers out of the established big boys so they brought these new rules in to try to stop them. Nobody but fans of the big few care what City did because they've seen those other teams doing it for years. It's a massive hypocrisy.

Leicester broke FFP to get out the Championship!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

What are these asterisks. Do you really feel the games powers are going to go back and mark wins with a *. History doesn't work like that and the results will stand irrespective of what was spent legally or not

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I expect every Club to have ambition, it seems these days some Clubs are expected to happy by simply having PL Football.

Virtually every Club has spent beyond their means to get the place were they become self sustainable, Lpool, City are good examples of this.

But the current system stops this, how ridiculous is it that Newcastle maybe forced to sell their better players to stay inside the current rules!

Which Clubs will be able to afford to buy them? Newcastle could be in a semi-state of rebuilding every year! How is that fair?

Have a look at the Net Spen table for the last 5 years! Villa are 7th, what do you define as silly money!

Premier League net spend table over the last five years

Forget the league table, it's all about the Premier League net spend table. And Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Tottenham are ahead of the other 16.

www.football365.com

Spending beyond a clubs means is more than just spending on transfers

A clubs means is the full income and then what they spend on outgoings

Newcastle can spend beyond their means within limits

And they spent to get themselves up the top and into the CL

Do we want to see a league where it’s all about who has the richest owners and who have a unlimited pot of gold waiting to be spent

That’s ends up being a battle between two or 3 clubs owned by oil states

 

[Beezerk]

What are these asterisks. Do you really feel the games powers are going to go back and mark wins with a *. History doesn't work like that and the results will stand irrespective of what was spent legally or not

Nah it’s just silliness from some fans who are bitter that their team lost out in the title race.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The gap from Championship to L1 is just as big. Rotherham Utd have a squad value of about £15-17 million so how can they compete with the clubs who still get premier league money?
The top 2 divisions are both split into 3 bands with the same teams at the top, middle and bottom most years.

Yep the money gaps are huge and it just shows the greed of the prem clubs when they won’t want to allow the disgusting levels of money floating around to filter down to all clubs

The start of the prem was the start of the big money divsion

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Because we are told that by fans of the big 6!
Brighton must be on a blip, because without the points deduction they’d be level with us.

As I said, they had a foray in to Europe, then lost their best players to big 6 clubs, now rebuilding!

Wolves a few seasons back, Burnley, West ham last year, few of these clubs are consistently in Europe or there or there abouts.

All teams are on some form of rebuild. More so these days with the powers players can exert to get a move. As someone that watched us get to a European final and beat some top teams like Juventus along the way then of course we want that again. That said I think if fans can see a side putting in an honest performance week in, week out, and perhaps a decent cup run as we had in the league cup this year then most will be happy as long as they can see progress and a club with a clear direction