the Distance Debate - should the authorities act

[Deleted member 3432]

I don't know enough about the actual logistics of doing it. I was thinking of it as one ball would be made and given to everyone. (Probably by Titleist now that you mention it, yeah.) But I suppose each manufacturer would insist on making their own to keep their sponsorship deals. So there would have to just be a lost of tolerances in terms of what they are made of that limits the distance, I guess? And somehow all the new 'pro balls' will need testing to make sure they conform to the new standard.

I don't see it ever being extended to amateur level as well. There's just no way on your average weekend Stableford that clubs are going to be able to verify that everyone has bought the new conforming golf balls. People who have stocked up with six boxes of ProV1s are not just going to chuck them in the bin and buy new limited golf balls. It's completely unenforceable. It has to be just for the pros or not at all.

Any changes in the past have been staggered, when pro's had to use different grooves in wedges us amateurs had about 10 years grace so we all stocked up on wedges only to find after about 2 years the manufacturers found a way to get even more spin than previously!

 

[Orikoru]

Any changes in the past have been staggered, when pro's had to use different grooves in wedges us amateurs had about 10 years grace so we all stocked up on wedges only to find after about 2 years the manufacturers found a way to get even more spin than previously!

As I said earlier in the topic I wouldn't be at all happy if they limited the ball for amateur chumps like me as well. I don't think I should be punished just because Bryson decided to have five protein shakes a day. I'd probably stock up on old balls, and quit my club membership so I can just carry on as normal but no comps etc so I wouldn't have to worry about playing a conforming ball.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

As I said earlier in the topic I wouldn't be at all happy if they limited the ball for amateur chumps like me as well. I don't think I should be punished just because Bryson decided to have five protein shakes a day. I'd probably stock up on old balls, and quit my club membership so I can just carry on as normal but no comps etc so I wouldn't have to worry about playing a conforming ball.

Plenty on here will have experience of playing the 'British ball' before the 'American ball' became the standard for amateur golf.

Before 1990 we had a choice what size ball we could play although it was the standard ball for the Open Championship from 1974.

Big difference between the 2, 1.62 went through the wind like a bullet but the 1.68 was way better for touch shots.

You soon get used to changes in this great game.

 

[Crow]

As I said earlier in the topic I wouldn't be at all happy if they limited the ball for amateur chumps like me as well. I don't think I should be punished just because Bryson decided to have five protein shakes a day. I'd probably stock up on old balls, and quit my club membership so I can just carry on as normal but no comps etc so I wouldn't have to worry about playing a conforming ball.

Distance is relative, you'd still hold your place in your group's long driving league, everyone would be 15% (for instance) shorter.

I think people would very soon get used to it and it's a most sensible thing that should have been done years ago, so I can't see it happening at all.

 

[Orikoru]

Distance is relative, you'd still hold your place in your group's long driving league, everyone would be 15% (for instance) shorter.

I think people would very soon get used to it and it's a most sensible thing that should have been done years ago, so I can't see it happening at all.

But I go from not being able to reach say, three of our par 4s to not being able to reach six or seven of them. I don't want to be hitting more and more hybrids and five woods on my second shots. Would definitely curtail my enjoyment.

 

[harpo_72]

But I go from not being able to reach say, three of our par 4s to not being able to reach six or seven of them. I don't want to be hitting more and more hybrids and five woods on my second shots. Would definitely curtail my enjoyment.

It won’t be like that, if they change the compression you will not see a thing. It will be the really high club head speeds ... this is what happened with the drivers I went from hot face (allegedly) to the regulated one, my distance lost was insignificant.. I was not hitting it hard enough to get a trampoline affect of note. I was not bad either swing speed was around 105mph with a driver and I was mostly out the middle.

 

[clubchamp98]

This is how I see it.
Up to about 95mph swing speed it won’t make any difference in length.
But over this speed the ball will react less of the face .
So a 110mph might lose 5/10 yds .
But a 130mph swing might lose 30 yds. Or more.?
I am sure the ball manufacturers could do this.

 

[davidy233]

This is how I see it.
Up to about 95mph swing speed it won’t make any difference in length.
But over this speed the ball will react less of the face .
So a 110mph might lose 5/10 yds .
But a 130mph swing might lose 30 yds. Or more.?
I am sure the ball manufacturers could do this.

So the drive that Phil Mickelson just hit would only go 364 yards in this scenario

 

[clubchamp98]

So the drive that Phil Mickelson just hit would only go 364 yards in this scenario

“30yrds or more”
More would be up to the tour.

 

[BubbaP]

So the drive that Phil Mickelson just hit would only go 364 yards in this scenario

To be fair it was 322 carry and 70 odd roll down the hill.

 

[clubchamp98]

To be fair it was 322 carry and 70 odd roll down the hill.

Plus their fairways are as quick as our greens.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Interesting that Muirfield Village only opened in 1974 and played at 6978 yards for the Pro's.

Going to close after the Memorial tournament next for a Jack Nicklaus redesign which will take it to 7462 yards.

"The endeavor is aimed to enhance Muirfield Village as a tournament venue. The Memorial, which began in 1976, had an average winning score of six under par in its first 10 playings. However, the average winning score has hovered around 15 under for the past 10 years, with Patrick Cantlay winning in Columbus in June at 19 under."

 

[Grant85]

Folks I don’t know how many times I have to say this but a new ball is not going to impact shorter hitters noticeably.

it will be aimed at creating more spin or drag at higher swing speeds. Or it will only come in for elite competitions.

the idea that they are going to regulate a ball to penalise someone plopping it 210 off the tee - it’s simply not going to happen.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Make them hit the range balls we get locally. Go nowhere and lucky to have dimples on some

 

[harpo_72]

Folks I don’t know how many times I have to say this but a new ball is not going to impact shorter hitters noticeably.

it will be aimed at creating more spin or drag at higher swing speeds. Or it will only come in for elite competitions.

the idea that they are going to regulate a ball to penalise someone plopping it 210 off the tee - it’s simply not going to happen.

And that is totally feasible! I don’t think they will impact the dimple patterns - might shallow them off but I think this is a tweak that they would struggle to control. The answer lies in the core material. They test the driver COR and have limits on it, it is a simple case of taking the reference driver and finding the compression levels to that will impact the distance... the point is you can swing out your shoes, but you don’t get anything for it apart from the backache.
There might be an advantage to really lay into this ball, but it won’t be off the tee, it will be in the short game ... but even then you would have to have the control of a god to finesse the back spin ... and watching someone chuck it into a green and back spinning down through the contours to the hole .. would be a spectacle to behold

 

[garyinderry]

I am in favour of a shorter ball for pros but certainly not one that punishes a longer player more than a shorter one.

It should cut the same amount for all players. Otherwise the playing field isn't level.

 

[cliveb]

I've have a thought, but before suggesting it, need to confirm a belief that might be wrong...

We all know that in order to benefit from a stiff shaft you need a high swing speed.
Is it also the case that if you have a high swing speed, then you need a stiff shaft (otherwise it's difficult to maintain control)?

 

[Dan2501]

I am in favour of a shorter ball for pros but certainly not one that punishes a longer player more than a shorter one.

It should cut the same amount for all players. Otherwise the playing field isn't level.

And if that's the case it's pointless I think. All it does then is help "protect par" which is arbitrary.

I think bifurcation will ultimately make the game even more distance focused. If the shorter players on Tour are now struggling to reach Par 5's in two with the reduced ball they're going to struggle to compete week on week even more, and the push to get even longer and get even more speed to negate the new ball as much as possible will come in. The big hitters will still be the big hitters and so will continue to dominate as they do now.

I think things can be done but I don't think the game needs to change in such an extreme way to "fix" the pro game. Things like getting rid of the rough they leave at the bottom of slopes to stop balls going in the water, having more OB punishing the wildly off-line tee shots, cutting the fairways into the players to reduce roll-out, firming up the greens, more punishing rough, all these things could be implemented first before we make the drastic change to split the professional game apart from the amateur game. But personally I don't see a huge issue, very little has changed in the last 20 years in regards to scoring average, and distance is important, but there's more to it than just distance, as Cam Champ proved at the end of last season.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

And if that's the case it's pointless I think. All it does then is help "protect par" which is arbitrary.

I think bifurcation will ultimately make the game even more distance focused. If the shorter players on Tour are now struggling to reach Par 5's in two with the reduced ball they're going to struggle to compete week on week even more, and the push to get even longer and get even more speed to negate the new ball as much as possible will come in. The big hitters will still be the big hitters and so will continue to dominate as they do now.

I think things can be done but I don't think the game needs to change in such an extreme way to "fix" the pro game. Things like getting rid of the rough they leave at the bottom of slopes to stop balls going in the water, having more OB punishing the wildly off-line tee shots, cutting the fairways into the players to reduce roll-out, firming up the greens, more punishing rough, all these things could be implemented first before we make the drastic change to split the professional game apart from the amateur game. But personally I don't see a huge issue, very little has changed in the last 20 years in regards to scoring average, and distance is important, but there's more to it than just distance, as Cam Champ proved at the end of last season.

The game has always been distance focused and long hitters have and have always had an advantage.

The ball has to go back so that the great golf courses can hold Major Championship golf and the players can be tested in exactly the same way as the past champions were tested.

We have just about reached the point where the majority of great courses cannot be made longer as they is no room on the site.

To me the whole distance debate is about protecting the golf courses, Jack Nicklaus is on record as saying many courses have become obsolete for tournament play.

 

[Grant85]

I am in favour of a shorter ball for pros but certainly not one that punishes a longer player more than a shorter one.

It should cut the same amount for all players. Otherwise the playing field isn't level.

This is just not realistic. The same amount?
So 10 yards for everyone, 10% for everyone? What is fair?

The longer hitters have gotten far more out of the modern equipment than average pros and certainly almost any club golfer.

In the 1990s, the longest pros were averaging 260, now Bryson could be averaging 350 over a few tournaments with his new physique and swing.

Club golfers or 'average' pros have not added that kind of distance with the modern equipment, even with their best drives, never mind average.

The equipment is already heavilly regulated, but every year manufacturers find ways to make gains within the existing rules and obviously the best pros have trackman and coaches to work out the best set up and best things to work on. And obviously the best of those execute it.