the Distance Debate - should the authorities act

[davidy233]

Looks like he hit his tee shot into the semi, so the driver may not have run out as much as if it had hit the fairway

Hit 4 iron from the fairway in the play off - I've got the whole ending on YouTube at the moment - good excuse to watch it for first time since I watched it as it happened.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Hit 4 iron from the fairway in the play off - I've got the whole ending on YouTube at the moment - good excuse to watch it for first time since I watched it as it happened.

Just seen that this is from regulation play

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Some very interesting comments and another good, well thought debate. I do think the resort courses and some of the regular PGA tour events simply aren't up to the job because they struggle to present a course tough enough for the week the circus comes to town. How long would it take to grow the rough brutal enough to prevent BdC hitting 8 irons from their thick stuff or has he simply now got the brute strength to muscle it from anywhere? What is the cost implication and how much would a course get from the tour as an incentive to toughen the course up and what would the detrimental effect be for members playing it in the harder state for months prior to the even and after until it is thinned out. DOn't forget they are still paying their memberships to play a leisure past time.

I looked at the British Masters score from last year and it was -16 that Kinhult won on. Now Walton Heath is an oldish club and perhaps not as long as some of the ones on tour but it had a severe defence with its heather. Hard to still smash it miles from that regardless of who you are. Now of course you can't grow that on every course, but even places like Wentworth, where pros can now reach all par 5's in ease has its defence with ditches and trees down the side of most fairways and so there is a degree more premium on accuracy.

I think the problem is the PGA has developed to be a bomb it and then throw short irons dart like into greens. The only real time this changes is a US Open and to some extent the USPGA although it is noticeable that in the week(s) before these events they tend to play a course that has been toughened more than normal to give players a taste of the major event to come. For me, a lot of these US course are now fixed venues on tour and as has been shown when that is threatened the club/community will find a way to keep it on the rota. Being fixed though unless steps are taken to make them more bomber resistant, and the cost implications for someone, somewhere down the line, then we'll simply see scores going longer and players hitting driver/wedge and it coming down to a putting contest week in, week out. The only simple option is bifurcation especially with the ball but I'd like the driver and fairway woods made smaller too. These are suppose to be the most skilled in the world so let them display all the facets of the game not just drive, wedge putt

I agree. As,I said in a previous post, they need to plant some (many?) bushes, heather type etc. The sort you can't thrash out of, strategically placed so that if the bombers go off the fairway, they will find unplayable lies.
That will make it most interesting, certainly for the spectators.
It could be that BdeC is accurate enough to risk it.Mickelson will have a chunter , I imagine. ?Rory will have to think hard.
Such "amendments to courses shouldn't be expensive or difficult.
Seems the best answer to me, rather than penalise everyone with different balls, equipment et al.

 

[davidy233]

That photo looks like he’s in the semi

It is - this is his shot on the 72nd hole of the tournament - he hit from fairway in play off - this was in response to comment saying he’d hit 3 wood earlier in the day.

 

[Crow]

I agree. As,I said in a previous post, they need to plant some (many?) bushes, heather type etc. The sort you can't thrash out of, strategically placed so that if the bombers go off the fairway, they will find unplayable lies.
That will make it most interesting, certainly for the spectators.
It could be that BdeC is accurate enough to risk it.Mickelson will have a chunter , I imagine. ?Rory will have to think hard.
Such "amendments to courses shouldn't be expensive or difficult.
Seems the best answer to me, rather than penalise everyone with different balls, equipment et al.

But can you imagine how much time this might add to a round, searching for ball, weighing up options, calling a rules official, etc.

On second thoughts they do most of that already so press on.

 

[SammmeBee]

Nice conditions make it very simple......the last time conditions got brutal (i.e. what we would describe as fun) at St. Andrews in The Open, they basically refused to play as it was too hard. Just make them play proper golf courses.

 

[davidy233]

Nice conditions make it very simple......the last time conditions got brutal (i.e. what we would describe as fun) at St. Andrews in The Open, they basically refused to play as it was too hard. Just make them play proper golf courses.

When was this? I don't remember St Andrews ever being described as 'too hard' for the pros. They did cut the greens too short in 2015 which led to balls being blown about, but hardly 'too hard'

In fact the only time I've seen an Open venue described as 'unplayable' is the 1999 one at Carnoustie which has been discussed above - criticism which led to this remarkable Interview from Head Greenkeeper John Philp

 

[virtuocity]

Imagine putting lead weights at the bottom of Usain Bolt’s trainers.

The pros can smack it as far as they want for all I care. It’s not entirely boring to watch- it’s still a spectacle. Looking forward to seeing Bryson and co attempt to overpower British links on a blowy day.

Leave them to it- it’s a different sport to what I play on a Saturday morning.

 

[virtuocity]

which led to this remarkable Interview from Head Greenkeeper John Philp

ha! Enjoyed this.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

When was this? I don't remember St Andrews ever being described as 'too hard' for the pros. They did cut the greens too short in 2015 which led to balls being blown about, but hardly 'too hard'

In fact the only time I've seen an Open venue described as 'unplayable' is the 1999 one at Carnoustie which has been discussed above - criticism which led to this remarkable Interview from Head Greenkeeper John Philp

2010 was pretty windy on day two.
Rory started 63, 80 if memory serves.

 

[TheDiablo]

Imagine putting lead weights at the bottom of Usain Bolt’s trainers.

The pros can smack it as far as they want for all I care. It’s not entirely boring to watch- it’s still a spectacle. Looking forward to seeing Bryson and co attempt to overpower British links on a blowy day.

Leave them to it- it’s a different sport to what I play on a Saturday morning.

That analogy doesn't really add up. Firstly, there already are restrictions in place on golf equipment. The question is do they go far enough?

Secondly, there's also restrictions in running shoes. Everyone started wearing new Nike tech a couple of years ago and records started tumbling to such an effect authorities stepped in to halt any further developments.

A swift response, unlike the head in the sand lack of action by the golfing bodies.

 

[pendodave]

That analogy doesn't really add up. Firstly, there already are restrictions in place on golf equipment. The question is do they go far enough?

Secondly, there's also restrictions in running shoes. Everyone started wearing new Nike tech a couple of years ago and records started tumbling to such an effect authorities stepped in to halt any further developments.

A swift response, unlike the head in the sand lack of action by the golfing bodies.

Agreed. Not to mention those weird swimming costumes...
(Maybe that will be Bryson's next marginal gain?)

 

[Blue in Munich]

Apparently the Walton Heath composite course is 7,866 yards long. If you don’t think that’s long I can only admire the distance you must be hitting it Homer, as it’s plenty long enough for my game.

https://www.provisualizer.com/courses/waltonheathcomposite.php

Link to the Walton Heath composite course yardage. Par 3's averaging 202 yards, par 4's averaging 461 yards, par 5's averaging 575 yards. Definitely not short in my book.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

https://www.provisualizer.com/courses/waltonheathcomposite.php

Link to the Walton Heath composite course yardage. Par 3's averaging 202 yards, par 4's averaging 461 yards, par 5's averaging 575 yards. Definitely not short in my book.

Lol. 521 yard par 4 in there as well.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Lol. 521 yard par 4 in there as well.

Now that is a driver, 3 wood hole!!

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Now that is a driver, 3 wood hole!!

You mean 3-wood, 3-wood, right? Don’t want to go long... ?

 

[harpo_72]

You mean 3-wood, 3-wood, right? Don’t want to go long... ?

Still too long it’s driver and 3/4 9 iron may be a full out gap but the spin is too much ?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

You mean 3-wood, 3-wood, right? Don’t want to go long... ?

I assumed it was into the wind

 

[Grant85]

I agree. As,I said in a previous post, they need to plant some (many?) bushes, heather type etc. The sort you can't thrash out of, strategically placed so that if the bombers go off the fairway, they will find unplayable lies.
That will make it most interesting, certainly for the spectators.
It could be that BdeC is accurate enough to risk it.Mickelson will have a chunter , I imagine. ?Rory will have to think hard.
Such "amendments to courses shouldn't be expensive or difficult.
Seems the best answer to me, rather than penalise everyone with different balls, equipment et al.

I actually think that will favour the bombers more.

Bottom line is all of these guys are trying to hit the ball hard. Even the shorter hitters are still missing 30% of the fairways. Golf is difficult.

Example I'd use is the PGA at Bethpage black last year. Narrow fairways and thick rough.

Ultimately the leaderboard was all big power / muscle guys. Apart from Jordan Spieth who putted his socks off all week.

The reason being is if a bomber misses the fairway at 320 yards and a normal guy misses it at 290... bomber might have 120 yards to the green, but 150 yards for a weaker player is a huge difference. Big guy can get more loft and has more power to hit the ball out and hold the green. Shorter hitter has distance, less loft and less power going against him.

Now I appreciate mostly everyone can lift weights and get stronger, but in terms of your point... thick rough / heather around the fairways isn't going to have the imapct you imagine it will. In many cases the opposite impact.

 

[harpo_72]

I actually think that will favour the bombers more.

Bottom line is all of these guys are trying to hit the ball hard. Even the shorter hitters are still missing 30% of the fairways. Golf is difficult.

Example I'd use is the PGA at Bethpage black last year. Narrow fairways and thick rough.

Ultimately the leaderboard was all big power / muscle guys. Apart from Jordan Spieth who putted his socks off all week.

The reason being is if a bomber misses the fairway at 320 yards and a normal guy misses it at 290... bomber might have 120 yards to the green, but 150 yards for a weaker player is a huge difference. Big guy can get more loft and has more power to hit the ball out and hold the green. Shorter hitter has distance, less loft and less power going against him.

Now I appreciate mostly everyone can lift weights and get stronger, but in terms of your point... thick rough / heather around the fairways isn't going to have the imapct you imagine it will. In many cases the opposite impact.

Depends where its starts .. but, I take your point. It doesn’t really matter a stronger player will always play more loft and shorter irons.. so in essence the game is easier.