the Distance Debate - should the authorities act

[clubchamp98]

I had persimmon wood in the day.
They were reasonably easy to hit because it was what we were used to.
Modern ball would destroy them with pros swing speed.
I didn’t notice the change in drivers over the years because it crept up on us.
But I still shot the same scores on my old club course as driver is only part of the game.
It might stop them bombing it ,but courses would go back to yardages that suit the equipment surley.
Big hitters would still have an advantage.
Watched the golf yesterday and they were hitting PW 150yds so it’s not just the driver that’s a problem .
Pros now are top athlete’s ( most are anyway) so the game has changed.
Good or bad it open to interpretation.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

No doubt Bryson, and others, could still get one out there - not 360 but likely could get them well over 300 - but the penalty for a slight mishit or a slightly off swing path is a far bigger loss of distance and accuracy.

When you see what guys were playing with in the early 90s - it's remarkable that clubs were allowed to change so dramatically within a fairly short amount of time.

I'm not putting too much faith in the Callaway video. Ultimately the video is quite happy to emphasise how good the clubs are these days - give those two a few days on the range and a tournament to play in and I'm sure they'd get it around with the old clubs.

Ultimately I'd want things to change in order to reward skill level to a greater degree than athleticism. I know the PGA Tour, manufacturers and sponsors probably don't want that - but that is why the rules bodies are separate from all of that. The PGA Tour have hinted in the past that if the rules change, they'll just run their own rule book and allow whatever they want. I'd imagine if that were to happen we'd see a genuine comparison as to how the game would develop.

Having used a persimmon in my very early days of playing golf, I can assure you that they were harder to hit. If it didn’t go out of the, very small, sweet spot it didn’t go far. If you hit it out of the heal it went pretty well, but if you hit it out of the toe it went nowhere and way off line.
Now you can hit it away from the sweet spot and it’ll still fly miles, if you have good swing speed.

 

[tigerwes]

How much distance has Bryson gained over the last 12 months? Should he be punished for putting the effort in and working on his game to get the extra yards?

If someone became an unbelievable putter, would we be asking for the greens to be made harder or smaller holes.

 

[harpo_72]

I had persimmon wood in the day.
They were reasonably easy to hit because it was what we were used to.
Modern ball would destroy them with pros swing speed.
I didn’t notice the change in drivers over the years because it crept up on us.
But I still shot the same scores on my old club course as driver is only part of the game.
It might stop them bombing it ,but courses would go back to yardages that suit the equipment surley.
Big hitters would still have an advantage.
Watched the golf yesterday and they were hitting PW 150yds so it’s not just the driver that’s a problem .
Pros now are top athlete’s ( most are anyway) so the game has changed.
Good or bad it open to interpretation.

This is why changing the driver size is a mono dimensional solution and the ball needs consideration .. but it would be interesting to see what changing the compression does to the iron distances

 

[garyinderry]

Imagine how nice the wooden drivers would be if they never allowed metal woods into play.

They could still be adjustable with weights etc.



This is probably the case in some parallel universe.

 

[harpo_72]

How much distance has Bryson gained over the last 12 months? Should he be punished for putting the effort in and working on his game to get the extra yards?

If someone became an unbelievable putter, would we be asking for the greens to be made harder or smaller holes.

Bryson has done a good job, and we should applaud him. But this isn’t about a golfer a single person this is about the courses, sustainability and the game ..
So he should make hay why the sunshines but be aware the clouds are coming and get a short game ?

 

[harpo_72]

Imagine how nice the wooden drivers would be if they never allowed metal woods into play.

They could still be adjustable with weights etc.



This is probably the case in some parallel universe.

I think wood was dropped because of cost, although those ping zing woods carried on for a while and with graphite shafts .. I loved the look of those.
I picked up my 12 degree Mizuno impact driver at the weekend. This was my first driver and I upgraded the 3 wood to a sundridge. This just went further than my driver. The head was still tiny, but it sent the ball. I remember struggling to find a driver at that time. I moved to a T zoid strong 3 and that was just huge until I got an 8 degree Great big Bertha.. I had a limited budget and was stuck between changing technology the T Zoid was purchased on a one off test.. it stayed in my bag for 15 yrs.

 

[Grant85]

How much distance has Bryson gained over the last 12 months? Should he be punished for putting the effort in and working on his game to get the extra yards?

If someone became an unbelievable putter, would we be asking for the greens to be made harder or smaller holes.

This isn't just about Bryson, it's about the trend in the game that was very much established prior to the past few months. An average gain of 1 yard per year that is probably getting greater if anything, as more youngsters come onto the tour who have been hitting it longer since they were teens. The trend is that at the moment, Bryson is a phenom, but within 3 or 4 years there will be guys on tour who are bombing it past him.

With a roll back Bryson will still be longer than other guys, and still have potential to hit one out there - he might just think about where his misses are going a bit more and will miss a few extra greens from further back.

With regards putting, this already happens with ultra slick greens and pin positions on slopes used to control scoring and place a premium on putting, short game & course management I'm sure if you or I were to head out to a US major venue or even a tour venue, we'd me made to look very foolish on a lot of these greens compared to what we would think of as 'fast' or 'slopey' greens at your club or preferred high end resort venue.

Look at the pin position at 18 on The Old Course every time the Open is there. All 4 days it is a variation of front left, along the ridge into the valley of sin. It's the only tool they have to stop guys having a huge target in the middle of the green where they can miss short or long and still have a simple birdie chance.

Having used a persimmon in my very early days of playing golf, I can assure you that they were harder to hit. If it didn’t go out of the, very small, sweet spot it didn’t go far. If you hit it out of the heal it went pretty well, but if you hit it out of the toe it went nowhere and way off line.
Now you can hit it away from the sweet spot and it’ll still fly miles, if you have good swing speed.

No doubt it is harder, but that's why the Pros have their name on the bag. In the past, a major championship at 7,000 yards was a fearsome test where guys had to hit the ball well, hit great long irons, get up and down a lot & take advantage of the shorter holes and par 5s etc.

And of course, we aren't going to roll back to persimmons.

 

[Mandofred]

How much distance has Bryson gained over the last 12 months? Should he be punished for putting the effort in and working on his game to get the extra yards?

If someone became an unbelievable putter, would we be asking for the greens to be made harder or smaller holes.

Grant85 just said pretty much the same as I have below....

Yep, the guy has put in the work and is reaping some of the benefits. Reducing distance (ball, club, whatever) doesn't punish him....everybody would be shorter....Bryson and the other long hitters would still be guys who hit the ball the furthest. Now if they just did something to him, that would be punishment.

Aren't the greens faster now than they were 40 years ago? I would assume they are since the tech to cut grass should have gotten better as well. I think they are cutting the fairways tighter as well allowing more roll.

I think they have to do something to reign things back in a bit....whether a change in balls or clubs .....or a change in course conditions to make the offline drives riskier.

 

[garyinderry]

I think wood was dropped because of cost, although those ping zing woods carried on for a while and with graphite shafts .. I loved the look of those.
I picked up my 12 degree Mizuno impact driver at the weekend. This was my first driver and I upgraded the 3 wood to a sundridge. This just went further than my driver. The head was still tiny, but it sent the ball. I remember struggling to find a driver at that time. I moved to a T zoid strong 3 and that was just huge until I got an 8 degree Great big Bertha.. I had a limited budget and was stuck between changing technology the T Zoid was purchased on a one off test.. it stayed in my bag for 15 yrs.

Its 450 quid a driver these days. I dont think it comes down to cost.

 

[harpo_72]

Its 450 quid a driver these days. I dont think it comes down to cost.

It’s the profit margin .. metal is massive ?

 

[incatrekker]

What would be wrong with having a unified pro ball that had a limiting initial velocity lower than amateurs? All the manufacturers have the same spec ball and all they are allowed to do is put their name on it, the players brand name and PRO ONLY text. Think...in how many sports are the competitors allowed to bring their own ball?
While they’re at it ban the alignment aid line, ban greens books too.

 

[harpo_72]

Was discussing with my playing partners, interesting debate. No change to the clubs, no roll back And change to the ball only. Interesting point was a ball that affected all.. so 15-20% to all and to be used by all to stop differentiation between amateur and professional.
After thinking about it, it would not stop the people thrashing at it. They still would and they would still cause slow play, the mentioned change doesn’t respect the ball strikers who have been marginalised by the larger sweet spot. Most ball strikers play within themselves, they don’t utilise the whole face.
I would like to play the same equipment as the pros, I can see issues of elite amateurs transitioning if equipment changes between these levels.