the Distance Debate - should the authorities act

[Grant85]

It is the golf authorities that need to police their rules, self regulation is and always will be open to urine extraction.
I think all of these ultra thin faces are on the limit, I would not be surprised if some are out side of legal due to tolerance. I also bet there is a tolerance as well that makes the hot ones legal and they are cherry picked. But you have to be swinging 115mph plus to really see it and I bet you could if your a tour pro feel it.

I'm sure this is the case. In reality golf is probably the only sport where people are getting away with breaking the rules, whether innocently or maliciously, every time the tee it up. There seems to be very little testing going on and manufacturers who will happily take things beyond the limit.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

For those interested in the lighter ball here's some test data and a bit of science.

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/ballWeight.php

Excellent heads up to a very interesting article.
As a senior with circa 95 clubhead speed, am I right in thinking that the article says that a higher loft to the driver( say 12 rather than 10.5 ) will give me more distance?

 

[harpo_72]

I played with a young gym bunny on Saturday. On a 510 yard par 5 he was at the back of the green with two 3 irons. I'm not sure that restricting the size of the driver alone is the answer. Maybe a combination of a minimum amount of loft (15 degrees?) and maximum shaft length could be considered.

This just highlights you cannot change drivers alone, or they will be pulling out fairway woods delofted or driving irons that are hot.. it is a case of adjusting ball and driver.

 

[Crow]

Excellent heads up to a very interesting article.
As a senior with circa 95 clubhead speed, am I right in thinking that the article says that a higher loft to the driver( say 12 rather than 10.5 ) will give me more distance?

I've not checked the article but it's very likely, it's all about matching ball speed to launch angle.

 

[harpo_72]

Excellent heads up to a very interesting article.
As a senior with circa 95 clubhead speed, am I right in thinking that the article says that a higher loft to the driver( say 12 rather than 10.5 ) will give me more distance?

I think the loft should be your delivered loft, so it is the head and your impact angle

 

[harpo_72]

I'm sure this is the case. In reality golf is probably the only sport where people are getting away with breaking the rules, whether innocently or maliciously, every time the tee it up. There seems to be very little testing going on and manufacturers who will happily take things beyond the limit.

Ah motorsport is another... any equipment based sports open the door. The Americans/ Eastern European’s have cheated for years with drugs in athletics ... the latest is to have a baby or sex change .... its human nature it’s why we have an arms race we constantly need to compete with some one fair means or foul ..

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Two options
1] Make the ball bigger.
2] Tighter design of the Open golf courses, one of the most difficult holes on the Open circuit is the postage stamp at Troon

 

[clubchamp98]

Excellent heads up to a very interesting article.
As a senior with circa 95 clubhead speed, am I right in thinking that the article says that a higher loft to the driver( say 12 rather than 10.5 ) will give me more distance?

Taylormade thought so a couple of seasons ago with their loft up programme.
That’s why a lot of people can hit their 3 wood almost as far as their driver.
Your angle of attack might deloft your driver to 8* or less but your 3 wood is still 11/12 * so lots of players hit 3 wood great but struggle with driver.
I am one of them , I have tried to change it but failed.

 

[harpo_72]

Taylormade thought so a couple of seasons ago with their loft up programme.
That’s why a lot of people can hit their 3 wood almost as far as their driver.
Your angle of attack might deloft your driver to 8* or less but your 3 wood is still 11/12 * so lots of players hit 3 wood great but struggle with driver.
I am one of them , I have tried to change it but failed.

Same here, had my basic spin killer swing which was dropping out the sky at 190 yards .. (1600rpm) which was killing me. I then changed my attack angle to generate another 600rpms of spin and increased the loft on the driver to 12 degrees .. that found 1-200rpm the shaft needs looking at if I want more .. but it will be very little compared to technique. The Mizuno fitter just tried everything and couldn’t get close to my driver - bit shocked how I could just change the angle of attack as well ?. He tried to be positive but was probably thinking “twerp”.

Yet 5 wood is absolutely enormous, sadly have no idea about its spin figures. I know it’s 18 degrees and 39.75” .

So smaller driver is not going to be any bigger problem than current !

 

[inthehole]

Fascinating to read the different viewpoints expressed on this thread.

To answer the original question " YES " the authorities should act and should have done so 5 years ago.

The ball is by far the best way to achieve this. It would not disadvantage longer hitters because they would still hit it further than their competitors. It would mean that top players and normal players could all use similar courses. Making courses longer and longer is not economically sustainable or desireable.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Fascinating to read the different viewpoints expressed on this thread.

To answer the original question " YES " the authorities should act and should have done so 5 years ago.

The ball is by far the best way to achieve this. It would not disadvantage longer hitters because they would still hit it further than their competitors. It would mean that top players and normal players could all use similar courses. Making courses longer and longer is not economically sustainable or desireable.

Id argue they could have done it a decade ago, Whether the act now or pontificate remains to be seens

 

[harpo_72]

Bit pointless saying when they should have done it ... that train has left the station. Now it’s a case of implementing a strategy, but first developing a strategy. If it was me I would not open it up to general consultation just a select few. That way you don’t get bogged down with ego and argument .. you get a plan and you apply it and aggressively. Time to make an omelette, break a few eggs and get it over and done with. There will be a load moaning and groaning, but there will always will be, some people don’t know what is good and what is bad in the grand scheme of things.

 

[harpo_72]

This is quite amusing

 

[Deleted member 3432]

This is quite amusing

Couple of choppers trying to hit the persimmon, show how much skill was needed in the past to be a good driver of the ball.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Couple of choppers trying to hit the persimmon, show how much skill was needed in the past to be a good driver of the ball.

I’d love to see DeShambles really go at one, with the little persimmon, like he does with his current driver.
Could even miss the ball!

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I’d love to see DeShambles really go at one, with the little persimmon, like he does with his current driver.
Could even miss the ball!

Yes I'd like to see that as well. But I think he would hit it ok. Though it seems a bit of a wild swing, he has a fair record of hitting it straight ( though not too good lately).
I think his one plane swing helps the accuracy thing. Not as wild as it looks!

 

[harpo_72]

I thought it was interesting as I think the big Bertha is probably the size they choose to reduce to.
But it’s interesting they struggled with the persimmon. I wonder what they would be like with a day at the range, some shaft adjustments etc .. it would probably still not be high enough to cut corners and be well short of 300 yards.

 

[harpo_72]

Yes I'd like to see that as well. But I think he would hit it ok. Though it seems a bit of a wild swing, he has a fair record of hitting it straight ( though not too good lately).
I think his one plane swing helps the accuracy thing. Not as wild as it looks!

I think the one plane stuff lends itself to bulking up and going after it. There is minimal complexity

 

[Grant85]

I’d love to see DeShambles really go at one, with the little persimmon, like he does with his current driver.
Could even miss the ball!

No doubt Bryson, and others, could still get one out there - not 360 but likely could get them well over 300 - but the penalty for a slight mishit or a slightly off swing path is a far bigger loss of distance and accuracy.

When you see what guys were playing with in the early 90s - it's remarkable that clubs were allowed to change so dramatically within a fairly short amount of time.

I'm not putting too much faith in the Callaway video. Ultimately the video is quite happy to emphasise how good the clubs are these days - give those two a few days on the range and a tournament to play in and I'm sure they'd get it around with the old clubs.

Ultimately I'd want things to change in order to reward skill level to a greater degree than athleticism. I know the PGA Tour, manufacturers and sponsors probably don't want that - but that is why the rules bodies are separate from all of that. The PGA Tour have hinted in the past that if the rules change, they'll just run their own rule book and allow whatever they want. I'd imagine if that were to happen we'd see a genuine comparison as to how the game would develop.

 

[harpo_72]

The PGA are selling entertainment they will base their decision on that ...