The Cricket Thread

[Neilds]

Not to anyone who plays cricket. Going after a boundary and getting one are not the same thing. Fielders are better than they were 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.
You might have to properly go after 3 balls per over to get one boundary.
It's not village cricket with 50 metre boundaries and arthritic, butter-fingered fielders; these guys are playing to 80 metre boundaries against elite sportspeople.

Have played cricket so I do know a bit about the game.
Just look at how SA target the part time spinners (over 10 an over) and respect Rashid - 3 an over. It is not just trying to hit every ball out of the park, it is picking the right bowlers and the right ball. Bethell was doing ok against the spinners yesterday but tried to do the same against pace and he couldn’t do it.

 

[RichA]

Have played cricket so I do know a bit about the game.
Just look at how SA target the part time spinners (over 10 an over) and respect Rashid - 3 an over. It is not just trying to hit every ball out of the park, it is picking the right bowlers and the right ball. Bethell was doing ok against the spinners yesterday but tried to do the same against pace and he couldn’t do it.

Arithmetic and probability come into it.
If the top order took it steady at RR=5.5 for 30 overs and achieved their average scores then the team is probably 165/4 with 20 overs left. That would leave 2 recognised batters and the tail to sustain RR>=8 last night, which isn't realistic.
Coming in at 66/2 in the 13th over Bethell had no choice but to settle himself for a few balls then accelerate. His job was to bash some runs and let Root try to play the anchor role.
There would be no point in nurdling runs for 20 overs and letting the RR get to double figures. Nurdling ones and twos against world class fielders exposes them to run-outs as much as boundary chasing exposes them to being caught.
He did well. A lot were writing England off halfway through the SA innings but they took it to the last ball.

SA are a better ODI team than us.

 

[Neilds]

Arithmetic and probability come into it.
If the top order took it steady at RR=5.5 for 30 overs and achieved their average scores then the team is probably 165/4 with 20 overs left. That would leave 2 recognised batters and the tail to sustain RR>=8 last night, which isn't realistic.
Coming in at 66/2 in the 13th over Bethell had no choice but to settle himself for a few balls then accelerate. His job was to bash some runs and let Root try to play the anchor role.
There would be no point in nurdling runs for 20 overs and letting the RR get to double figures. Nurdling ones and twos against world class fielders exposes them to run-outs as much as boundary chasing exposes them to being caught.
He did well. A lot were writing England off halfway through the SA innings but they took it to the last ball.

SA are a better ODI team than us.

Jonathan Agnew (who knows a bit about cricket) has said in a BBC article that Bethell needs to learns the game and should never have been made captain for the upcoming Ireland T20s. He also says that he should have been playing county cricket this summer instead of carrying drinks for the test side
#justsaying

 

[RichA]

Jonathan Agnew (who knows a bit about cricket) has said in a BBC article that Bethell needs to learns the game and should never have been made captain for the upcoming Ireland T20s. He also says that he should have been playing county cricket this summer instead of carrying drinks for the test side
#justsaying

Aggers, of all people, should know that honed skills in FC cricket doesn't translate to success in international cricket.
He's a great commentator though.

 

[The Squirrel]

Aggers, of all people, should know that honed skills in FC cricket doesn't translate to success in international cricket.
He's a great commentator though.

Of course not. It’s obvious that not every player tried out at the next level up will succeed. Your odds of making the transition are immeasurably better though compared to if you HAVEN’T honed those skills to be elite at county level. Look at lots of England’s best finds for the last 20 years. Swann, Tres, Prior, Trott, Root then more recently Atkinson, Carse, Jamie Smith, Duckett. None of them skipped the county cricket stage…

 

[RichA]

Of course not. It’s obvious that not every player tried out at the next level up will succeed. Your odds of making the transition are immeasurably better though compared to if you HAVEN’T honed those skills to be elite at county level. Look at lots of England’s best finds for the last 20 years. Swann, Tres, Prior, Trott, Root then more recently Atkinson, Carse, Jamie Smith, Duckett. None of them skipped the county cricket stage…

How do you know that to be a fact?
There might be much within county cricket that does young elite players no favours. There might be benefits of training with and being surrounded by elite international players every day.
Maybe it's worth trying with a young man of exceptional ability who's grown up outside of the traditional England cricket pyramid.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

How do you know that to be a fact?
There might be much within county cricket that does young elite players no favours. There might be benefits of training with and being surrounded by elite international players every day.
Maybe it's worth trying with a young man of exceptional ability who's grown up outside of the traditional England cricket pyramid.

Don’t really see the exceptional ability

He appears to be like the old style pinch hitter that used to open in ODIs over a decade ago

There are a good number of young players within the county game that are better ball strikers than him

But I can see a decent white ball career at T20 if he can find some consistency but he shouldn’t be near the Red ball squad

 

[RichA]

Don’t really see the exceptional ability

He appears to be like the old style pinch hitter that used to open in ODIs over a decade ago

There are a good number of young players within the county game that are better ball strikers than him

But I can see a decent white ball career at T20 if he can find some consistency but he shouldn’t be near the Red ball squad

Lara and Sobers did, but what do they know?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Lara and Sobers did, but what do they know?

Blimey going back a bit now to when he was 11

So far he has been disappointing- bringing him into the last test against India was a shocking decision and he was poor , one little swinging knock is miles away from showing that he should be in that team

He has made no impact to the team when playing against any opposition of note

England cricket have seen these type of golden boy players for decades to only seen them disappoint because they couldn’t do it on a consistent basis and Bethell at the moment is the latest in that line

And Brian Lara and Sobers opinion on a 11 year won’t change that

 

[RichA]

Blimey going back a bit now to when he was 11

So far he has been disappointing- bringing him into the last test against India was a shocking decision and he was poor , one little swinging knock is miles away from showing that he should be in that team

He has made no impact to the team when playing against any opposition of note

England cricket have seen these type of golden boy players for decades to only seen them disappoint because they couldn’t do it on a consistent basis and Bethell at the moment is the latest in that line

And Brian Lara and Sobers opinion on a 11 year won’t change that

So let's just keep doing everything the old way, cause that's what we've always done?
Fortunately some in the national set-up are ignoring all the obvious reactionary noise and trialing something new.
Might work; might not work. You'll never know unless you try.

 

[Neilds]

So let's just keep doing everything the old way, cause that's what we've always done?
Fortunately some in the national set-up are ignoring all the obvious reactionary noise and trialing something new.
Might work; might not work. You'll never know unless you try.

As we have gone backwards since winning the World Cup, I suspect going back to the old ways might be a good start. What England are doing now isn’t working.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So let's just keep doing everything the old way, cause that's what we've always done?
Fortunately some in the national set-up are ignoring all the obvious reactionary noise and trialing something new.
Might work; might not work. You'll never know unless you try.

What was wrong with doing the old way when we won the ODI World Cup and two T20 world cups ?

Did we not produce countless amount of top quality white ball players through the counties - why do we need to have a player from outside that system

 

[RichA]

What was wrong with doing the old way when we won the ODI World Cup and two T20 world cups ?

Did we not produce countless amount of top quality white ball players through the counties - why do we need to have a player from outside that system

Why not try something different?
It's one player; not the whole squad.
England have won 1 out of 13 ODI World Cups (but not the most recent) and 2 out of 9 T20 World Cups (but not the most recent). Not exactly World domination. Worth trying something new.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Why not try something different?
It's one player; not the whole squad.
England have won 1 out of 13 ODI World Cups (but not the most recent) and 2 out of 9 T20 World Cups (but not the most recent). Not exactly World domination. Worth trying something new.

Why do they need to try something different ?

The One Day Cup that was pushed aside for the Hundred highlighted the big amount of young players in the county game

Young Archie Vaughan looks more talented than Bethell in both formats but his development should stay within the county as opposed to within England

 

[RichA]

Why do they need to try something different ?

The One Day Cup that was pushed aside for the Hundred highlighted the big amount of young players in the county game

Young Archie Vaughan looks more talented than Bethell in both formats but his development should stay within the county as opposed to within England

Why wouldn't anyone try something different? Innovate or die.
Again, we're talking about one player here in a pool of 29 with central contracts.
It's the equivalent of putting 3.5% of your life savings in a slightly risky investment when the other 96.5% is in low risk accounts.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Why wouldn't anyone try something different? Innovate or die.
Again, we're talking about one player here in a pool of 29 with central contracts.
It's the equivalent of putting 3.5% of your life savings in a slightly risky investment when the other 96.5% is in low risk accounts.

What is it that they are trying to do by having a player play no part in the county scene ? How does that help his development

He went months without playing any level of cricket and then straight into a test match and flopped horribly - in what way is that good for the player.

How can the players prove they are good enough to be in the England set up if they aren’t going out and showing that they can do the business consistently

We are now ranked below Afghanistan in ODI - that’s how much we have gone backwards ,

 

[RichA]

We are now ranked below Afghanistan in ODI - that’s how much we have gone backwards ,

Have they got better than us through their reliance on graduates of red ball county cricket?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Have they got better than us through their reliance on graduates of red ball county cricket?

County is more than just red ball - it’s s shame that the white ball comps are ignored as well

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Booooomm - want an innings from Dickson

 

[D-S]

Ridiculously good knock 71 from 26 when they looked dead and buried - buy that man a scrumpy.