The all things EV chat thread

[Deleted member 23270]

When you say entry level costs. I presume you are talking about second hand cars with those prices?

The model 3 as a company car is a much cheaper option than a lot of other cars that have a lower otr price from a dealer.

No I'm not, new entry level cars from companies like Kia are available from around 10k. What percentage of people have access to company cars?

 

[drdel]

Very few people understand interest rates, even fewer understand residual values and even less the BiK system and next to nobody caters for inflation. So most just look at the monthly number and to hell with the future.

Even Fleet and Transport managers work in the happy world of ignorance.

It's not surprising that the difference in the whole life costs of EVs and ICEs never come in the decision making

 

[Lord Tyrion]

No I'm not, new entry level cars from companies like Kia are available from around 10k. What percentage of people have access to company cars?

With the advent of covid, how many companies have scrapped company car schemes or vastly reduced them? I certainly know people in companies that have slashed their schemes, surely part of the reason the second hand market has gone crazy as people still need cars to get around locally in. Way fewer reps on the road, no casual drop ins for 2 years, way more meetings on zoom etc. Big cost savings for companies to get rid of cars.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Could the issue over replacing the batteries mean that the market for second hand EVs is going to crash? Once the battery is out of warranty who's going to buy a second hand EV knowing that they could be facing a bill of £10k (or whatever it might be) to replace the battery if or when it goes wrong? For example, if a second hand Tesla that's 9 years old and valued at £20k, assuming the previous post about an 8 year warranty is correct, could need a new battery that will cost £10k then that halves the value of the car.

 

[PJ87]

What if you don't want one that is faster, has bells and whistles?

My sister changed her car back in November and the salesman couldn't get his head around her not wanting bigger wheels, fancier stereo, sexier paint job, bigger engine etc. She wants an A - B car, she won't be alone in that.

would they ness be buying new if its just an A-B car? second hand maybe, when you can compare many EVs to just normal run arounds, somebody needs to break through with a really really basic EV. MG are coming out with some .. think the cheapest around (might suit A-B but dunno circumstances) is the Smart car EV £20k start

I dont think they are marketing it for not having things tho, the price is already high so if they go proper basic and have to add things it will look even more unattractive
where as here is your EV but it comes with all this.. more of a selling point, in the majority .. will always be cases like your sister who just want A-B

 

[Lord Tyrion]

would they ness be buying new if its just an A-B car? second hand maybe, when you can compare many EVs to just normal run arounds, somebody needs to break through with a really really basic EV. MG are coming out with some .. think the cheapest around (might suit A-B but dunno circumstances) is the Smart car EV £20k start

I dont think they are marketing it for not having things tho, the price is already high so if they go proper basic and have to add things it will look even more unattractive
where as here is your EV but it comes with all this.. more of a selling point, in the majority .. will always be cases like your sister who just want A-B

If you buy new, I'm going off my sister here, you get the full warranty, best finance deal etc. There is also the buzz of being the only owner, first one in the car, you know how it has been treated etc. My next door neighbours are the same. Every 3 years they buy a brand new, basic trim Astra. Their old one wont have 20k on the clock but it is what they do.

I'm not anti electric by the way but price absolutely is an issue, it can't be avoided.

 

[bobmac]

Could the issue over replacing the batteries mean that the market for second hand EVs is going to crash? Once the battery is out of warranty who's going to buy a second hand EV knowing that they could be facing a bill of £10k (or whatever it might be) to replace the battery if or when it goes wrong? For example, if a second hand Tesla that's 9 years old and valued at £20k, assuming the previous post about an 8 year warranty is correct, could need a new battery that will cost £10k then that halves the value of the car.

Depends what you want the car for.
The health of the battery can be checked before purchase and if it is low, then that can be used in the negotiations for the cost of the car. And if you only use the car as a run around, you won't need 100's of miles of range so in the end, you're not paying the extra for 200 mile range that you don't need.
If however you're doing 50,000 miles a year, stick with your ICE car for the time being

 

[PJ87]

If you buy new, I'm going off my sister here, you get the full warranty, best finance deal etc. There is also the buzz of being the only owner, first one in the car, you know how it has been treated etc. My next door neighbours are the same. Every 3 years they buy a brand new, basic trim Astra. Their old one wont have 20k on the clock but it is what they do.

I'm not anti electric by the way but price absolutely is an issue, it can't be avoided.

I have always found If you want to go new (for the reasons above, which im guilty of) leasing it by far the best way to deal with it, yes you own nothing of the car in 3 years or whatever but all you have paid out is the depreciation

you also arent in charge of taxing it so even if you were getting a gas guzzler they pay those costs

 

[Deleted member 29109]

No I'm not, new entry level cars from companies like Kia are available from around 10k. What percentage of people have access to company cars?

Lots of people have access to a company car scheme. Of course not everyone does and I didn’t suggest they did.

It doesn’t look like many people are buying £10k Kia’s. Which start at £11,450.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/354230/best-selling-cars-uk-2020?amp

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I have always found If you want to go new (for the reasons above, which im guilty of) leasing it by far the best way to deal with it, yes you own nothing of the car in 3 years or whatever but all you have paid out is the depreciation

you also arent in charge of taxing it so even if you were getting a gas guzzler they pay those costs

I leased, via work, for years before buying a second hand car last year, BIK rates pushed me over the edge and no electric or hybrid suits me right now. Anyway, I get your point about leasing but for many people, generally older, it doesn't sit right, doesn't feel right. They want to 'own' the car. In the case of my sister I told her about leasing but she generally keeps a car for 6-8 years so buying does make sense in this case. For those changing evey few years, I'm with you

 

[PJ87]

I leased, via work, for years before buying a second hand car last year, BIK rates pushed me over the edge and no electric or hybrid suits me right now. Anyway, I get your point about leasing but for many people, generally older, it doesn't sit right, doesn't feel right. They want to 'own' the car. In the case of my sister I told her about leasing but she generally keeps a car for 6-8 years so buying does make sense in this case. For those changing evey few years, I'm with you

Yeah doesn't sit well for everyone, just how different people see different things diff ways

My boss when I bought my hrv I believe it was 28k and it was suppose to last 10 years was the plan

He showed me his contact who said I could have leased the same car 5 times (2 year deals) paid 24k think he said basically in the fees which saves 4k which in 10 years how much will the car be worth? Who knows

Doesn't work for everyone

 

[williamalex1]

A friend bought a MG zs ev last week and so far so good.
Seemingly he has to buy the home charger unit from the supplier and the electrician who installs it has to be approved and registered with the supplier.
ATM he has a Scottish government EV card the allows him to charge the battery for free at certain sites.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Too often I have read that car leasing is the next financial crisis waiting to happen, so I wonder at what point the consumer is forced to take a real world long term view on buying a car because only then will the real costs be addressed.

 

[bobmac]

Let's face it, everyone's needs are different, whether you drive 50 miles a week or a 1000 miles a week.
In the past, you had a choice of petrol or diesel.
Now there is a 3rd option, Ev's
Isn't more choice better?
Right now, the Ev doesn't suit everyone, I know that.
So for those people, keep buying your ICE cars but keep your eyes open, things are changing fast.
Would I buy an electric car? absolutely but have you seen the price of them

 

[PJ87]

Let's face it, everyone's needs are different, whether you drive 50 miles a week or a 1000 miles a week.
In the past, you had a choice of petrol or diesel.
Now there is a 3rd option, Ev's
Isn't more choice better?
Right now, the Ev doesn't suit everyone, I know that.
So for those people, keep buying your ICE cars but keep your eyes open, things are changing fast.
Would I buy an electric car? absolutely but have you seen the price of them

After buying (or leasing should I say) one , I don't want to return to ICE

My plan is another ev to replace this one , then when my fixed mortgage is up in 8 years and I know what interest rates look like I can address the second car. Should have plenty of options then

If I get a bigger ev this time round (say a id4 size) I may be able to ditch the big car sooner and just replace with something like a leaf for running around

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Too often I have read that car leasing is the next financial crisis waiting to happen, so I wonder at what point the consumer is forced to take a real world long term view on buying a car because only then will the real costs be addressed.

I've had this chat with others, sometimes whilst playing golf, to keep the forum theme going . Anyway, like you, I seem to have heard this for a good while yet it hasn't happened so far. Will it or is the threat just that and no more? I do see some of the numbers and wonder though .

 

[drdel]

My 6 year old still holds 95% of battery charge. Just because the warranty ends after 8 or10 years the battery can be fine and will only slowly decline the full charge capability.

A battery 'pack' contains numerous individual cells and usually its just one or two cells that loose max voltage and these can be swapped out. For about £40 you can buy a OBD reader and with a bit of free software on you phone you can see the voltages of each cell etc so there is no need to buy an EV in the dark

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Not necessarily.

Assuming the cars are the same spec and have the same options.

Smiffy will tell you how much the monthlies are dependent on the deposit you put down, which is dependent on the financing option you choose.

Then. Anyone sensible will do the maths for how much fuel versus how much electricity they will typically use, tax, insurance etc and figure out the total cost of ownership.

Range. Time to "refuel". Those are huge issues that nobody who is an EV fan tries to answer, plus, now we have the battery life which we're going to start seeing more and more horror stories as batteries start dying.

I'm with IanM, we're at the 3310 stage, I don't even want a Blackberry, I want a car that doesn;t give me the inconvenience of the current electric cars, that has 500 mile range, and has a battery that will last 20 years/200,000 miles. Give me that and I'll give it serious consideration

Of course by the time that comes along, the cost of running an EV will be taxed to make up for the lost petrol/diesel revenue, so your cost savings will have gone.

 

[Ethan]

My 6 year old still holds 95% of battery charge. Just because the warranty ends after 8 or10 years the battery can be fine and will only slowly decline the full charge capability.

A battery 'pack' contains numerous individual cells and usually its just one or two cells that loose max voltage and these can be swapped out. For about £40 you can buy a OBD reader and with a bit of free software on you phone you can see the voltages of each cell etc so there is no need to buy an EV in the dark

Fifth Gear Recharged TV show did an episode on Norway - big EV adoption - recently and they showed a EV from China (Nio) where you don't recharge the battery as much as swap it out by driving into a shed-like structure where the machinery comes out of the flor and swaps it over for a new one unless than 5 mins. Saves on charging time, but also could do away with battery ageing too.

See: this YouTube video

 

[PJ87]

I've had this chat with others, sometimes whilst playing golf, to keep the forum theme going . Anyway, like you, I seem to have heard this for a good while yet it hasn't happened so far. Will it or is the threat just that and no more? I do see some of the numbers and wonder though .

Same chats on the course about how certain things will cause interest rates to rise to 5-10% in x years (should be in by now)

car leasing is one thats touted but tbh leasing has its place.. it props up the car makers.. and creates the second hand market with "approved used" a lot etc