The all things EV chat thread

[Mudball]

Can I just say, that don't confuse "eco" programs with quick, they aren't and can't be. The energy use is all in the heating of the water, so less water means less money spent BUT it must run longer to be sure to clean properly. The same applies to washing machines. The energy a motor uses in pushing the water around or rotating a drum is next to nothing in comparison to heating an extra 500ml of water.

It seems so long ago that appliances would take a hot water feed than just try to heat it themselves.
My new dishwasher ‘eco’ is 3.5 hrs!!!

 

[PJ87]

It seems so long ago that appliances would take a hot water feed than just try to heat it themselves.
My new dishwasher ‘eco’ is 3.5 hrs!!!

And what a waste of energy that was .. having to use gas or electric to heat the water to go into the machine. Rather than the machine controlling the temp straight Way

3.5 hours for Eco is decent ours is 4 hours. It's an overnight one

Normal time is 2 hours 18

Is what it is

 

[cliveb]

And what a waste of energy that was .. having to use gas or electric to heat the water to go into the machine. Rather than the machine controlling the temp straight Way

3.5 hours for Eco is decent ours is 4 hours. It's an overnight one

Normal time is 2 hours 18

Is what it is

But heating water with gas (which is how most of us do it) is significantly cheaper than doing so with electricity. (Even if you have a cheap overnight tariff it's still more per kWh than gas). So maybe having a hot feed isn't as daft as it sounds.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

But heating water with gas (which is how most of us do it) is significantly cheaper than doing so with electricity. (Even if you have a cheap overnight tariff it's still more per kWh than gas). So maybe having a hot feed isn't as daft as it sounds.

The reason machines followed Miele and more importantly Zanussi was the push to lower water level use in the 80s and the result that by the time actually hot water entered the machine they had almost stopped filling. Couple that with the need for a more accurate temperature requirement and there being no standard hot water temperature meant going cold fill only was the way forward. Also don’t forget that soaking stains or dirty clothes with cold water then raising the water to the required temperature gives better cleaning results and is better for the garment.

 

[harpo_72]

I thought you used excess solar energy to raise your hot water tank temperature via a heating element. Which had a positive affect on gas consumption. Likewise if you have an air pump you can keep the house at a higher minimum and the energy required to raise it would be lower.
I don’t see gas as being totally replaced, I thought it was a mixed strategy of applications.

 

[Mudball]

And what a waste of energy that was .. having to use gas or electric to heat the water to go into the machine. Rather than the machine controlling the temp straight Way

3.5 hours for Eco is decent ours is 4 hours. It's an overnight one

Normal time is 2 hours 18

Is what it is

Not necessarily.. I m heating cold water in my washing machine or dishwasher when I have about 200 liters of hot water sitting idle in the tank. Though I think appliance will have to figure out a way to manage temperature

(Just saw @Bunkermagnet’s explaination .. it is more logically but not insurmountable to achieve if machines had 2 feeds)

 

[Fade and Die]

Not necessarily.. I m hearing cold water in my washing machine or dishwasher when I have about 200 liters of hot water sitting idle in the tank. Though I think appliance will have to figure out a way to manage temperature

(Just saw @Bunkermagnet’s explaination .. it is more logically but not insurmountable to achieve if machines had 2 feeds)

That’s why I have never been a fan of stored hot water, every day you pay to heat it up, what you don’t use gets cold then you pay to heat it up again, much more efficient to have the hot water “on demand” (Combi)

Re your other post about Siemens DW, I’ve now got a kitchen full of Siemens “smart” appliances. I’ve never set any of them up and they work perfectly.

 

[larmen]

That’s why I have never been a fan of stored hot water, every day you pay to heat it up, what you don’t use gets cold then you pay to heat it up again, much more efficient to have the hot water “on demand” (Combi)

We paid 20p a day for gas when we were on holidays at the end of August. I could have switched it off but I forgot.

 

[jim8flog]

It seems so long ago that appliances would take a hot water feed than just try to heat it themselves.
My new dishwasher ‘eco’ is 3.5 hrs!!!

I read somewhere that modern detergents work best when heated slowly.

2nd point is that stored water starts at 70 degrees and having a hot feed probably worked well when most people washed at 60 degrees.

 

[cliveb]

That’s why I have never been a fan of stored hot water, every day you pay to heat it up, what you don’t use gets cold then you pay to heat it up again, much more efficient to have the hot water “on demand” (Combi)

I moved a couple of years ago and this is the first house I've had a combi boiler. The time it takes for hot water to come through is rather irritating.
Modern properly insulated water tanks lose very little heat. I think I prefer the old way (not that it bothers me enough to contemplate ripping out the combi).

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Not necessarily.. I m heating cold water in my washing machine or dishwasher when I have about 200 liters of hot water sitting idle in the tank. Though I think appliance will have to figure out a way to manage temperature

(Just saw @Bunkermagnet’s explaination .. it is more logically but not insurmountable to achieve if machines had 2 feeds)

Washings machines used to have hot and cold feeds, when the drum would be half full of water even the main wash, but this was predominantly the UK. Europe has had cold fill machines for years as they also had cold wash detergents. The UK consumer and buyer also couldn’t see that cold feed only was better.
In actual fact, back then although Zanussi did have a hot and cold feed, only 1 program took any hot water and that was the boil wash.
Now we have the eco drive and washing at lower temperatures, to feed hot water into a washing machine is a risk no one wants with such lower temps required accurately.
Dishwashers should never be on hot water feed as the salt in the salt container would be dissolved too early. Also, certain programs require a lower temperature to avoid damage to the items being washed, such as glasses.

 

[jim8flog]

I moved a couple of years ago and this is the first house I've had a combi boiler. The time it takes for hot water to come through is rather irritating.
Modern properly insulated water tanks lose very little heat. I think I prefer the old way (not that it bothers me enough to contemplate ripping out the combi).

It is the main reason I had my combi mounted right next to the sink in the kitchen (new kitchen was designed) for it. I also chose a boiler that has a preheat mode so the HW is almost instantaneous.

Takes a little longer to reach the bathroom almost directly above the kitchen but I rarely use the preheat mode for the bathroom.

As I have said before the trouble with tanks, no matter how well insulated, is that when you run the hot you are filling the tank with cold and cooling down the remaining hot and for sanitary reasons they have to be heated to 70 degrees to kill the bacteria. I never run my combi above 50 for hot water.

 

[Mudball]

It is the main reason I had my combi mounted right next to the sink in the kitchen (new kitchen was designed) for it. I also chose a boiler that has a preheat mode so the HW is almost instantaneous.

Takes a little longer to reach the bathroom almost directly above the kitchen but I rarely use the preheat mode for the bathroom.

As I have said before the trouble with tanks, no matter how well insulated, is that when you run the hot you are filling the tank with cold and cooling down the remaining hot and for sanitary reasons they have to be heated to 70 degrees to kill the bacteria. I never run my combi above 50 for hot water.

Again, it depends on individual requirements... We have a combi that fills a fully insulated tank. If we did a direct feed, then with all bathrooms running during morning rush hour, we just wont get the thru put. It is a case of whatever works

 

[jim8flog]

Again, it depends on individual requirements... We have a combi that fills a fully insulated tank. If we did a direct feed, then with all bathrooms running during morning rush hour, we just wont get the thru put. It is a case of whatever works

Yes true

I tend to forget both of my bathrooms have electric showers.

 

[cliveb]

It is the main reason I had my combi mounted right next to the sink in the kitchen (new kitchen was designed) for it. I also chose a boiler that has a preheat mode so the HW is almost instantaneous.

Takes a little longer to reach the bathroom almost directly above the kitchen but I rarely use the preheat mode for the bathroom.

My combi is in the loft, so switching preheat on and off based on requirements isn't a practical option.
And of course leaving preheat on permanently is way more wasteful than having a well insulated hot water tank.

EDIT: we seem to have come a long way from discussing EVs!

 

[Mudball]

But heating water with gas (which is how most of us do it) is significantly cheaper than doing so with electricity. (Even if you have a cheap overnight tariff it's still more per kWh than gas). So maybe having a hot feed isn't as daft as it sounds.

Stats from my DW app… I run Eco on overnight. But today needed a quick cycle between lunch and dinner so did a ‘Speed 45’ cycle .. it runs for 35 mins. Now I m really wondering what is eco really about

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Stats from my DW app… I run Eco on overnight. But today needed a quick cycle between lunch and dinner so did a ‘Speed 45’ cycle .. it runs for 35 mins. Now I m really wondering what is eco really about

View attachment 54875

I did explain it
Less water means less energy needed to heat it.

 

[Mudball]

I did explain it
Less water means less energy needed to heat it.

But the data shows otherwise.. 7.5L heated to 50 degrees in a 3.45 hr cycle is using more energy than 10L to 45 degrees in a 35 mins cycle

 

[Bunkermagnet]

But the data shows otherwise.. 7.5L heated to 50 degrees in a 3.45 hr cycle is using more energy than 10L to 45 degrees in a 35 mins cycle

But 25% less water, which will be metered for an 0.05kwh extra leccy. Overall its cheaper and more enviro agreeable

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Volvo gives up plan to sell only EVs by 2030

The car maker's decision comes as industry faces slowing demand in some major markets for electric vehicles.

www.bbc.co.uk

News that Volvo is changing it's target. Sensible move, going entirely EV at this stage is likely to lead to business disaster as the consumer is not there yet. Trying to force the market hasn't worked, a pace change was inevitable.