The all things EV chat thread

[stevied]

Look for the article on catch up yourself then.

No you'll need to share, as an EV owner I've seen nothing to this effect and I already read the news about them.

 

[Mudball]

Finland is struggling.. it is a leader in EV adoption and the low tax on EVs mean that they are not generating enough road taxes… so now they are thinking of bringing back tax on EVs ..

 

[stevied]

Finland is struggling.. it is a leader in EV adoption and the low tax on EVs mean that they are not generating enough road taxes… so now they are thinking of bringing back tax on EVs ..

I'll be paying VED from March. 165 I think, but I'll tax just before to get 1 more year free. New evs will also be subject to the luxury car ved.

 

[harpo_72]

I think the plan was to tax on particle emissions. So tyre and brake particles. There is a company that has a particle measurement system and they have been lobbying to update the EU7 regulations.
However they are starting to investigate it and initially they were targeting the tyre suppliers but actually it’s more whole vehicle.
So EVs will be penalised due to their mass, plus the manufacturers will need to understand how to manage the tyre contact patch and power inputs to minimise emissions.

 

[stevied]

I think the plan was to tax on particle emissions. So tyre and brake particles. There is a company that has a particle measurement system and they have been lobbying to update the EU7 regulations.
However they are starting to investigate it and initially they were targeting the tyre suppliers but actually it’s more whole vehicle.
So EVs will be penalised due to their mass, plus the manufacturers will need to understand how to manage the tyre contact patch and power inputs to minimise emissions.

I hardly ever use the breaks and be surprised if I ever have to change the pads. I don't understand the mass bit and tyres comment. Are you saying evs are heavier?

 

[harpo_72]

I hardly ever use the breaks and be surprised if I ever have to change the pads. I don't understand the mass bit and tyres comment. Are you saying evs are heavier?

Yes EVs are heavier as the battery energy density is still not the same level as fuel. Plus we have a range anxiety, which is driving the battery sizes.
The tyre dust is the key for EVs but the brake dust could be applied to all vehicles .. we talk about regen braking and foundation braking.. I think once you start braking to a level the foundation brake takes over but you can minimise this by how you regen.
I think also some EV have a brake rotor wipe system to remove rust and build up to maintain braking performance.

 

[stevied]

Yes EVs are heavier as the battery energy density is still not the same level as fuel. Plus we have a range anxiety, which is driving the battery sizes.
The tyre dust is the key for EVs but the brake dust could be applied to all vehicles .. we talk about regen braking and foundation braking.. I think once you start braking to a level the foundation brake takes over but you can minimise this by how you regen.
I think also some EV have a brake rotor wipe system to remove rust and build up to maintain braking performance.

A 2 ton ev isn't heavier than a 2.5 ton ice car though. Cars are just much heavier in general. I guess one day we'll see ppm or something but can't see that any time soon.

 

[harpo_72]

A 2 ton ev isn't heavier than a 2.5 ton ice car though. Cars are just much heavier in general. I guess one day we'll see ppm or something but can't see that any time soon.

It’s a case of like for like .. EV Range Rover vs ICE Range Rover .. there will be a deficit in vehicle weight. Electric motors are not overly light either especially if you want insane acceleration. I think this is improving but to get a 300 mile range battery you are looking at quite big weights ( not to sure on the numbers, but you could work it out if you compare an ice car that has a Bev option). 1 litre of petrol or diesel is roughly 1kg and if 45litres gets you 320miles and you want the same from a BEV it will be at least 100kgs heavier..

 

[cliveb]

All cars have odometers. The mileage can be recorded at the MOT test and a bill presented.
No need to carpet the country in ANPRs. (Although if police dramas are to believed, it seems it already is).

 

[stevied]

All cars have odometers. The mileage can be recorded at the MOT test and a bill presented.
No need to carpet the country in ANPRs. (Although if police dramas are to believed, it seems it already is).

To easy to manipulate. Can't see ppm anytime soon. The recent excitement seems to have stemmed from a recent article that the media have jumped on from a charity.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

It’s a case of like for like .. EV Range Rover vs ICE Range Rover .. there will be a deficit in vehicle weight. Electric motors are not overly light either especially if you want insane acceleration. I think this is improving but to get a 300 mile range battery you are looking at quite big weights ( not to sure on the numbers, but you could work it out if you compare an ice car that has a Bev option). 1 litre of petrol or diesel is roughly 1kg and if 45litres gets you 320miles and you want the same from a BEV it will be at least 100kgs heavier..

Its exactly the reason they are considering upping the 3 ton weight limit if its an EV van for tacho purposes, to 3.5ton.

 

[harpo_72]

Its exactly the reason they are considering upping the 3 ton weight limit if its an EV van for tacho purposes, to 3.5ton.

This is interesting, I was looking at an EV project where we could deliver around 2000kgs of payload a range of 280-320miles at 80% charge the vehicle grow loaded weight was around 3400kgs.
The challenge is the rear suspension package and not having too wide a vehicle. Plus accepting front wheel drive is the way forward as flying the drive to rear wheels or putting a motor on the rear wheels impacts your load capacity.

 

[bobmac]

Early 2000's is 20 yrs ago:0

Which EVs were being sold in the UK before 2010?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

All cars have odometers. The mileage can be recorded at the MOT test and a bill presented.
No need to carpet the country in ANPRs. (Although if police dramas are to believed, it seems it already is).

How do you measure cars in their first 3 years, when no MOT is required?

All issues can be overcome but this discussion has been happening for years and I'm not sure we are any closer to this method of charging.

 

[Mudball]

Summary of last 3 pages...*Nothing is certain except death and taxes*..... EV or no EV

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Which EVs were being sold in the UK before 2010?

I thought the Vauxhall Ampera was pre 2010, but it was 2011.

 

[stevied]

How do you measure cars in their first 3 years, when no MOT is required?

All issues can be overcome but this discussion has been happening for years and I'm not sure we are any closer to this method of charging.

Would have to be a tamper proof black box solution, but would also cost silly money to retrofit to existing vehicles and also get manufactures to comply. All in all cant see it happening anytime soon.

 

[stevied]

I noted a few questions about what I'd do if a son or someone rang and I needed to drive somewhere pronto but the car was low on battery. Same as a petrol car is the answer.

 

[3 jabber]

Don't know if this is a good or bad thing, thinking of buying an EV and looking at 2nd hand. Year old, £23k saving on list price. Seriously? Are these cars going to become worthless?!?!

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[3 jabber]

I noted a few questions about what I'd do if a son or someone rang and I needed to drive somewhere pronto but the car was low on battery. Same as a petrol car is the answer.

Drive down the road and fill it up in 2 minutes?