The all things EV chat thread

[Imurg]

Ultimately, range isn't really relevant until you're running out of juice.
According to the range calculator the standard Leaf does 99 miles on a charge going 65 on the motorway to the in laws for Xmas ( not this year though)..
Its 208 miles door to door. 3 1/2-4 hours
So I have to stop twice to recharge, 1 a full charge and one "quickie" to get me another few miles.
How long would it take to do a full recharge at one of the, say, motorway services charge points?
Obviously the 2nd charge would be a short one but its that full charge that I want to know the time of....

 

[clubchamp98]

In a few years that will improved

The hyuandi Kona for example 301 mile range prob 250 real world

However did you notice how little difference on the calculation the miles was for solo compared to family? Couple miles

Just found this about the electric production in the UK

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...bles-fossil-fuels-national-grid-a8967741.html

That coupled with Boris announcing we are going to push it even further (prob won't ofc but going right way)

I am looking at getting a VW ID3 it’s a really nice car .
Think I will go for the high battery one .
I don’t do a lot of long journeys so perfect for me
About same size as a Golf that’s great I used to love my golfs.
Prob July / August looking forward it will do me 10 yrs that’s me 73 yrs old so be handing the driving to someone else I hope.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I have a VW T Roc which I would say is a normal family car .
Before COVID I can get four carry bags ( woods out) in the boot.
It has a ski hatch in the rear seat that gets the woods in no problem.

But nobody has answered the range question that this added weight has on the range.
Forget golf clubs and add four suitcases same thing probably heavier if my missus is anything to go by.

Just heard on TV that electric cars cannot be towed if they break down ! Is this true??

I can't answer if it is true or not, but how many cars are actually towed nowadays? Most are recovered by flatbeds so I can't see that as being an issue.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I am looking at getting a VW ID3 it’s a really nice car .
Think I will go for the high battery one .
I don’t do a lot of long journeys so perfect for me
About same size as a Golf that’s great I used to love my golfs.
Prob July / August looking forward it will do me 10 yrs that’s me 73 yrs old so be handing the driving to someone else I hope.

I saw a review on the ID3, starts at £29k but the one on test with all the extras that most people would want was £39k which is Tesla money!

 

[clubchamp98]

I can't answer if it is true or not, but how many cars are actually towed nowadays? Most are recovered by flatbeds so I can't see that as being an issue.

That’s expensive.
You might be 1/2 mile from home .
But if it’s like a golf trolley where you have to disengage the wheels from the drive so your not pushing the motor I can see why you can’t tow or push one.
Might not be an issue but just one less choice given the range of some EVs it’s going to happen.

 

[clubchamp98]

I saw a review on the ID3, starts at £29k but the one on test with all the extras that most people would want was £39k which is Tesla money!

My mate works for a main dealer .
They are RRP they are nowhere near that.

 

[bobmac]

Do you remember when people said mobile phones will never catch on because they're too big, the batteries are too heavy and they dont last very long on a charge?

The EV is still young and currently only suitable for people who can afford them and have shorter commutes.
This however will change, as did the mobile phone.

If you are thinking about getting one, do your research and you may find many of your concerns have already been addressed.
But be reassured...
the batteries don't need to be replaced every 3 years
they don't take a week to charge
they will go faster than a milk float
You can take them through a car wash.

At the moment there are still drawbacks, the same with all new technology, cost, range, charging infrastructure, the use of rare earth materials, charging on the street, etc, but the boffins are working hard to make EVs more accessible to more people. It will take time but once the cost comes down and the charging improves, more people will make the change to EVs.
If anyone has any doubt, have a look at the car adverts on TV.

''Look daddy, there's one of those old fashioned petrol cars'' is not too many years away.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Ultimately, range isn't really relevant until you're running out of juice.
According to the range calculator the standard Leaf does 99 miles on a charge going 65 on the motorway to the in laws for Xmas ( not this year though)..
Its 208 miles door to door. 3 1/2-4 hours
So I have to stop twice to recharge, 1 a full charge and one "quickie" to get me another few miles.
How long would it take to do a full recharge at one of the, say, motorway services charge points?
Obviously the 2nd charge would be a short one but its that full charge that I want to know the time of....

It rather depends on the oomph of the charging point you are using

If it is a 50Kw unit (Standard rapid Charger then an hour should see you to 80%, Full charge 1 hour 20

if it is a 150Kw unit (BP has some) then 80% in 40 minutes, full charge 1 hour

The last 20% takes longer than the first bit

 

[PJ87]

It rather depends on the oomph of the charging point you are using

If it is a 50Kw unit (Standard rapid Charger then an hour should see you to 80%, Full charge 1 hour 20

if it is a 150Kw unit (BP has some) then 80% in 40 minutes, full charge 1 hour

The last 20% takes longer than the first bit

In that video that bob posted they had future proofed and put in 300KW charges for cars in the future.. the speed is coming

 

[PJ87]

Slope off back into hiding; or not bothering to engage with the blinkered?

https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/our-work/generation/electricity-generation.html

Most of the UK’s electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels, mainly natural gas (42% in 2016) and coal (9% in 2016). A very small amount is produced from other fuels (3.1% in 2016).

Renewable technologies use natural energy to make electricity. Fuel sources include wind, wave, marine, hydro, biomass and solar. It made up 24.5% of electricity generated in 2016 - this will rise as the UK aims to meet its EU target of generating 30% of its electricity from renewable sources by 2020.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...t_data/file/894920/Press_Notice_June_2020.pdf

• Provisional calculations show that 13.2 per cent of final energy consumption in 2019 came from renewable sources, up from 12.0 (revised) per cent in 2018, as measured against the UK’s target to reach 15 per cent by 2020 under the 2009 EU Renewable Directive.

• Fossil fuel’s share of generation decreased to 35.4 per cent in Q1 2020, as the fuel mix continued to move towards renewable sources. This is a new record low for fossil fuels.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/electricity-generation-mix-quarter-and-fuel-source-gb


https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/are-electric-cars-actually-worse-for-the-environment/

A report by the European Environment Agency (EEA) highlights that emissions from battery electric vehicle (BEV) production are generally higher than those from internal combustion engine vehicle (ICEV) production.

One study suggests that CO2 emissions from electric car production are 59% higher than the level in production of traditional internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEVs).

Most car batteries are made in China, South Korea and Japan, where the use of carbon in electricity production is relatively high.

An EEA report3 found that in China, 35-50% of total EV manufacturing emissions arise from electricity consumption for battery production. These emissions are up to three times higher than in the United States.

So at the moment, it seems fairly clear that electric vehicles aren't as clean as they could be, or clean as some claim them to be. Yes, the potential is there, but at the moment they are not the panacea some claim they are, they are considerably more expensive and they don't have the range to match an ICE vehicle. When they match an ICE vehicle, I'll consider one. But it won't be because someone tries to bully me into it.

Good to see that you resorted to insults again. Obviously you don't consider the concerns documented here as genuine.

do any of these reports factor in the mining of the oil and the refining process ?

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

Here, in response to recent misleading media reports on the topic, Carbon Brief provides a detailed look at the climate impacts of EVs. In this analysis, Carbon Brief finds:

• EVs are responsible for considerably lower emissions over their lifetime than conventional (internal combustion engine) vehicles across Europe as a whole.
• In countries with coal-intensive electricity generation, the benefits of EVs are smaller and they can have similar lifetime emissions to the most efficient conventional vehicles – such as hybrid-electric models.
• However, as countries decarbonise electricity generation to meet their climate targets, driving emissions will fall for existing EVs and manufacturing emissions will fall for new EVs.
• In the UK in 2019, the lifetime emissions per kilometre of driving a Nissan Leaf EV were about three times lower than for the average conventional car, even before accounting for the falling carbon intensity of electricity generation during the car’s lifetime.
• Comparisons between electric vehicles and conventional vehicles are complex. They depend on the size of the vehicles, the accuracy of the fuel-economy estimates used, how electricity emissions are calculated, what driving patterns are assumed, and even the weather in regions where the vehicles are used. There is no single estimate that applies everywhere.

There are also large uncertainties around the emissions associated with electric vehicle battery production, with different studies producing widely differing numbers. As battery prices fall and vehicle manufacturers start including larger batteries with longer driving ranges, battery production emissions can have a larger impact on the climate benefits of electric vehicles.
Around half of the emissions from battery production come from the electricity used in manufacturing and assembling the batteries. Producing batteries in regions with relatively low-carbon electricity or in factories powered by renewable energy, as will be the case for the batteries used in the best-selling Tesla Model 3, can substantially reduce battery emissions.

 

[Imurg]

It rather depends on the oomph of the charging point you are using

If it is a 50Kw unit (Standard rapid Charger then an hour should see you to 80%, Full charge 1 hour 20

if it is a 150Kw unit (BP has some) then 80% in 40 minutes, full charge 1 hour

The last 20% takes longer than the first bit

So my 4 hour trip has just turned into a 6+.....assuming there's no queue at the chargers...
And that's why, at the moment, I'm out.
It will happen, I've no doubt. And, of course, were all going electric eventually
I just hope they can sort the charging at home issue.

 

[bobmac]

In that video that bob posted they had future proofed and put in 300KW charges for cars in the future.. the speed is coming

350kw

So my 4 hour trip has just turned into a 6+.....assuming there's no queue at the chargers...
And that's why, at the moment, I'm out.

With the money you save all year driving your electric car, you could hire a big fancy car for the Christmas trip.

 

[Fade and Die]

Do you remember when people said mobile phones will never catch on because they're too big, the batteries are too heavy and they dont last very long on a charge?

The EV is still young and currently only suitable for people who can afford them and have shorter commutes.
This however will change, as did the mobile phone.

If you are thinking about getting one, do your research and you may find many of your concerns have already been addressed.
But be reassured...
the batteries don't need to be replaced every 3 years
they don't take a week to charge
they will go faster than a milk float
You can take them through a car wash.

At the moment there are still drawbacks, the same with all new technology, cost, range, charging infrastructure, the use of rare earth materials, charging on the street, etc, but the boffins are working hard to make EVs more accessible to more people. It will take time but once the cost comes down and the charging improves, more people will make the change to EVs.
If anyone has any doubt, have a look at the car adverts on TV.

''Look daddy, there's one of those old fashioned petrol cars'' is not too many years away.

Bob do you remember when people said CDs were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Tomorrow’s world told us they were indestructible, engineers were evangelical about how they were superior to vinyl and cassette. And for a while they seemed to be but now they are pretty much obsolete. I think the EV powered by batteries will go the same way. There will never be sufficient charging points and they will never be able to get the range to satisfy people’s doubts. Another tech, maybe ethanol or hydrogen will overtake it. The lithium battery EV will probably just be a city car.

 

[PJ87]

Bob do you remember when people said CDs were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Tomorrow’s world told us they were indestructible, engineers were evangelical about how they were superior to vinyl and cassette. And for a while they seemed to be but now they are pretty much obsolete. I think the EV powered by batteries will go the same way. There will never be sufficient charging points and they will never be able to get the range to satisfy people’s doubts. Another tech, maybe ethanol or hydrogen will overtake it. The lithium battery EV will probably just be a city car.

I think a better argument would be mini disk.. s better tech than cd but MP3 came along and made them obsolete.

CDs are still sold and have been for 38 years

Maybe they are the ice cars? A stable for years and stayed around for years after MP3 (electric cars) came along.. still people using them and will do for ages

 

[PJ87]

350kw




With the money you save all year driving your electric car, you could hire a big fancy car for the Christmas trip.

At one point didn't nissan offer customers use of a ice car 3 times a year?

Like for ages telsa offered free charging for life of the vehicle

 

[Smiffy]

At one point didn't nissan offer customers use of a ice car 3 times a year?

They did. But it was for 14 days a year, taken how you like. So two separate week long trips or 7 weekends away ???

 

[PJ87]

They did. But it was for 14 days a year, taken how you like. So two separate week long trips or 7 weekends away ???

Thought I'd read it somewhere. That was a very well planned offer

 

[Blue in Munich]

Bob do you remember when people said CDs were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Tomorrow’s world told us they were indestructible, engineers were evangelical about how they were superior to vinyl and cassette. And for a while they seemed to be but now they are pretty much obsolete. I think the EV powered by batteries will go the same way. There will never be sufficient charging points and they will never be able to get the range to satisfy people’s doubts. Another tech, maybe ethanol or hydrogen will overtake it. The lithium battery EV will probably just be a city car.

Vinyl is actually making a comeback as its sound quality is apparently better than CD's. But CD's are still more adaptable (you won't be playing vinyl in the car) and are less prone to damage. So both systems have their advantages, much like EV's & ICE vehicles.

 

[bobmac]

So both systems have their advantages, much like EV's & ICE vehicles.

I think that's the way it will be for 2 car families for a while yet, a plug-in hybrid for long journeys and the full electric for school runs, shopping etc.
The 2011 Nissan Leaf had a range of 80-100 miles in 9 years thats increased to 250-300 in the new EVs.

''While the emission-reducing properties of electric vehicles are widely accepted, there's still controversy around the batteries, particularly the use of metals like cobalt. SVOLT, based in Changzhou, China, has announced that it has manufactured cobalt-free batteries designed for the EV market. Aside from reducing the rare earth metals, the company is claiming that they have a higher energy density, which could result in ranges of up to 800km (500 miles) for electric cars, while also lengthening the life of the battery and increasing the safety. Exactly where we'll see these batteries we don't know, but the company has confirmed that it's working with a large European manufacturer.''

https://www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets...in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air (pocket-lint.com)

 

[PJ87]

I think that's the way it will be for 2 car families for a while yet, a plug-in hybrid for long journeys and the full electric for school runs, shopping etc.
The 2011 Nissan Leaf had a range of 80-100 miles in 9 years thats increased to 250-300 in the new EVs.

''While the emission-reducing properties of electric vehicles are widely accepted, there's still controversy around the batteries, particularly the use of metals like cobalt. SVOLT, based in Changzhou, China, has announced that it has manufactured cobalt-free batteries designed for the EV market. Aside from reducing the rare earth metals, the company is claiming that they have a higher energy density, which could result in ranges of up to 800km (500 miles) for electric cars, while also lengthening the life of the battery and increasing the safety. Exactly where we'll see these batteries we don't know, but the company has confirmed that it's working with a large European manufacturer.''

https://www.pocket-lint.com/gadgets...in-seconds-last-months-and-power-over-the-air (pocket-lint.com)

View attachment 33845

That's exactly how I'm planning to play it

4 year lease on e Corsa

Alhambra is 4 years old. Need the 3 yo to reach 12 so need 9 years

Keep leasing electric and then when can actually get an average size car again I'll look at a hybrid SUV for the family