The all things EV chat thread

[Smiffy]

Trust me. Within 10 years most electric cars will have a range of 500 miles or more. No problem.
That'll do pig.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

My mate works for a main dealer .
They are RRP they are nowhere near that.

True but similar discounts would apply to most cars. 40k gets you a lot of motor rather than a small family hatchback.

 

[PJ87]

One of my motors is coming to the end of its deal and am looking at options to replace it. The current supplier has offered me a pretty good deal to keep me as a customer, new motor for minimal deposit and an extra £6 a month. Trouble is it's a 2L diesel.

Another good option I've also been offered is on the new Peugeot e-208. It's a full electric model, which supposedly does 200 miles to a charge, although closer to 150 in real world terms. Mostly to be used by Mrs wedge as a run around, but will occasionally drive it to work (130 mile round trip, charging point at the office).

I'm kind of leaning towards the e-208, but still not sure on the slight extra cost vs the savings on using electric etc. I have a regular diesel for long journeys, so it really is for local runs mainly.

Anyone else running electric? Is it cost effective vs diesel? Would you go electric?

Going back to this initial question , did you go for it? The e 208 should defo suit all those needs. 150 miles would do your work trip especialllg with charging at work

When pottering around town it gets even more economical

Think that's where EV have ice engines beat. Ev thrive on sub 40 mph speeds and really return good figures

Ice you Mostly need faster speeds to get good return

 

[clubchamp98]

True but similar discounts would apply to most cars. 40k gets you a lot of motor rather than a small family hatchback.

Yes that’s the dilemma!

 

[Smiffy]

It rather depends on the oomph of the charging point you are using

If it is a 50Kw unit (Standard rapid Charger then an hour should see you to 80%, Full charge 1 hour 20

if it is a 150Kw unit (BP has some) then 80% in 40 minutes, full charge 1 hour

The last 20% takes longer than the first bit

The rapid chargers at service areas will only put an 80% charge in, maximum. And that would take about 30 to 40 minutes. You can stand there all day if you want, but you won't get the other 20%.
It's what they're designed to do

 

[PJ87]

The rapid chargers at service areas will only put an 80% charge in, maximum. And that would take about 30 to 40 minutes. You can stand there all day if you want, but you won't get the other 20%.
It's what they're designed to do

Why is that? Is it like phones that it prolongs the life if you don't fully charge or fully discharge to save charging cycles

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The rapid chargers at service areas will only put an 80% charge in, maximum. And that would take about 30 to 40 minutes. You can stand there all day if you want, but you won't get the other 20%.
It's what they're designed to do

We regularly deliver electric vehicles to auto journalists for reviews as well as end users.
Our instructions are to deliver with at least 80% charge.

I have charged many to 95-97% so your 80% max charge claim isn’t accurate

We tend to use BP Chargemaster ( used to be Polar)

 

[Bunkermagnet]

A few weeks ago I was chatting to a guy in my industry who hadnt long been issued witht he Nissan eNV200 leccy van. I was asking him about it and specifically the range. He said empty it was fine, but load it up and the range dropped alarmingly, and just dont use the heating or worse the air con if you want a loaded van to make it a whole day without charging, and their range is allegedly 170 miles or there abouts on a full charge. He reckoned he was getting no more than 90 miles, and thats without using the heating or aircon. I think I will pass until they either have a decent range sorted, or more likely come up with a viable long term power source.

 

[Dibby]

The other point not addressed is battery fatigue, on average an EV battery loses about 2% capacity annually. So your 300 mile range car after 5years might only be a 260 mile range car.

What are the environmental and financial impacts of potentially replacing batteries every 5-10 years?

This and the speed of charging is why I see hydrogen/biofuel/some other liquid fuel being the future rather than electric.

Yes, I might be wrong and EVs may be the mobile phone of the vehicle world, but they could just as easily be the laserdisc, Betamax, or Sinclair C5.

 

[PJ87]

The other point not addressed is battery fatigue, on average an EV battery loses about 2% capacity annually. So your 300 mile range car after 5years might only be a 260 mile range car.

What are the environmental and financial impacts of potentially replacing batteries every 5-10 years?

This and the speed of charging is why I see hydrogen/biofuel/some other liquid fuel being the future rather than electric.

Yes, I might be wrong and EVs may be the mobile phone of the vehicle world, but they could just as easily be the laserdisc, Betamax, or Sinclair C5.

Toyota bought back their first Prius off owners after 10 years .. they did a test of the batteries and the life was found to be nowhere near as first feared .

They say that the batteries will out live the car

It is down to how people treat them tho

If you use preconditioning (using your house power to get the car ready, heating, air con, gets the windows defrosted) it saves the battery doing heavy work. Also gets the battery to the perfect temp to work in winter to save it working harder

Like anything if you look after it lasts well

Most of them come with 8 year battery warrenty

The Corsa-e’s battery warranty guarantees that at least 70 per cent of its capacity is maintained for 100,000 miles, or eight years.

 

[Dibby]

Toyota bought back their first Prius off owners after 10 years .. they did a test of the batteries and the life was found to be nowhere near as first feared .

They say that the batteries will out live the car

It is down to how people treat them tho

If you use preconditioning (using your house power to get the car ready, heating, air con, gets the windows defrosted) it saves the battery doing heavy work. Also gets the battery to the perfect temp to work in winter to save it working harder

Like anything if you look after it lasts well

Most of them come with 8 year battery warrenty

The Corsa-e’s battery warranty guarantees that at least 70 per cent of its capacity is maintained for 100,000 miles, or eight years.

What did Toyota fear on battery life though? 2% a year is based on the latest studies across multiple brands, obviously its not linear you lose a lot in the first year or 2 then it levels out then you lose a lot again nearer the batteries end of life.

Losing 30% of your range after 8 years is a fairly big hit, and could completely impact whether the car suits you. Taking the Corsa-e's official range of 211 miles, after 8 years that could be 148 miles, I know ICE engines wear and lose power and efficiency, but not so much as you'd only get 350 miles instead of 500 out of a full tank.

I know you probably think I'm one of those people that wants to hang on to ICE at all costs, I'm not, I'm sure there will be some kind of replacement for ICE, I just struggle to see it being EVs for any use case other than city cars.

 

[Imurg]

How is this battery drain going to affect 2nd hand prices..?
Obviously if youre ,easing you just give it back but will the loss of battery charge, end to lease companies charging more as the depreciation may be higher?
And anyone who buys - what's the value going to be in 8 years when the battery warranty is up and the unit only holds 70% charge.?
And who's going to buy it.?
I appreciate that the tech will move on but, just say, a 9 year old EV needs a new battery - what sort of money are we talking.?

 

[PJ87]

What did Toyota fear on battery life though? 2% a year is based on the latest studies across multiple brands, obviously its not linear you lose a lot in the first year or 2 then it levels out then you lose a lot again nearer the batteries end of life.

Losing 30% of your range after 8 years is a fairly big hit, and could completely impact whether the car suits you. Taking the Corsa-e's official range of 211 miles, after 8 years that could be 148 miles, I know ICE engines wear and lose power and efficiency, but not so much as you'd only get 350 miles instead of 500 out of a full tank.

I know you probably think I'm one of those people that wants to hang on to ICE at all costs, I'm not, I'm sure there will be some kind of replacement for ICE, I just struggle to see it being EVs for any use case other than city cars.

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-...acturers have a five,they need to be replaced.

EV batteries undergo cycles of 'discharge' that occur when driving and 'charge' when the car's plugged in. Repeating this process over time affects the amount of charge the battery can hold. This decreases the range and time needed between each journey to charge. Most manufacturers have a five to eight-year warranty on their battery. However, the current prediction is that an electric car battery will last from 10 – 20 years before they need to be replaced.

In fact, in order to preserve the life of an electric vehicle battery, manufacturers ensure that there is additional spare capacity to compensate for degradation over time. So as an electric vehicle ages and the battery cycles, the additional spare capacity is used up. This allows the range of the vehicle to stay the same throughout the life of the battery. Once the battery capacity falls below 80%, drivers may start to notice a fall in the range and performance of the battery.

 

[PJ87]

How is this battery drain going to affect 2nd hand prices..?
Obviously if youre ,easing you just give it back but will the loss of battery charge, end to lease companies charging more as the depreciation may be higher?
And anyone who buys - what's the value going to be in 8 years when the battery warranty is up and the unit only holds 70% charge.?
And who's going to buy it.?
I appreciate that the tech will move on but, just say, a 9 year old EV needs a new battery - what sort of money are we talking.?

Yes and no with leasing, high resale value after 3 years as you have 5 years still on the warrenty so still a decent investment for some

Guy I work with laid 20k down on a second hand leaf 2018 plate

I was talking with him about my worries of battery life (why I'm leasing and not owning yet) he was saying about his 8 year warranty and how even when it drops he will still be able to use to and from work which is the main use

Think they will thrive as second cars

 

[need_my_wedge]

Going back to this initial question , did you go for it? The e 208 should defo suit all those needs. 150 miles would do your work trip especialllg with charging at work

I read all the info I could, but decided that I wanted to wait until the infrastructure, battery life and car costs all improved. I'm sure they will over the next 4 years, so decided to stick with ICE for this swap. Mercedes also came after me trying to retain my custom, and offered me a fantastic deal on a new car, cheaper than my old one. Fuel type aside the Merc was a hell of a lot more for the money than the Peugeot, that helped swing it this time. It would have been nice to go electric but I don't think it was quite ready for me, or maybe I was not quite ready for it. I am looking forward to seeing some major improvements over the next couple of years and hope to make the switch on the next change.

 

[PJ87]

I read all the info I could, but decided that I wanted to wait until the infrastructure, battery life and car costs all improved. I'm sure they will over the next 4 years, so decided to stick with ICE for this swap. Mercedes also came after me trying to retain my custom, and offered me a fantastic deal on a new car, cheaper than my old one. Fuel type aside the Merc was a hell of a lot more for the money than the Peugeot, that helped swing it this time. It would have been nice to go electric but I don't think it was quite ready for me, or maybe I was not quite ready for it. I am looking forward to seeing some major improvements over the next couple of years and hope to make the switch on the next change.

If Merc are going to swoop with an offer that's hard to turn down to be fair ...

 

[need_my_wedge]

If Merc are going to swoop with an offer that's hard to turn down to be fair ...

Ashamed to say, I really wanted to go EV bit it was too good an offer in the scheme of things.

 

[PJ87]

Ashamed to say, I really wanted to go EV bit it was too good an offer in the scheme of things.

That's the thing offers are key

I had to keep focused on ev to make the switch .. because really I could have got a different car for the price

The wife wasn't overly impressed. She goes by looks (not with men obviously) she liked the Kona I wanted .. so was sold on that. The offer disappeared , meant a long wait and increased price so went for a Corsa. She wasn't impressed. Whilst she liked the looks thought too small for us.. had to remind her it's the commuting car not the family car lol .. but she thinks the Alhambra is ugly as sin .. which is true but can't be helped with 3 kids in car seats lol

But then next time round in 4 years we don't have to get a massive pram in and out the door so can go for say a Kia niro electric which is longer (would block the pram getting out the door easily)

Need that Alhambra to last another 9 years

 

[Dibby]

Porsche and Bosch recently announced development of a big "efuel" plant in South America, basically they use a big solar farm to produce a synthetic fuel for IC engines that is carbon neutral - you still have the issue of carbon being released at the cars exhaust, but it is all carbon that was captured from the environment to produce the fuel, rather than carbon that was buried in the ground from a dead dinosaur. They think the price will be approx €1.30 a litre pre tax by 2030 and €1 a litre by 2050. Interesting development if it works and can be scaled.

 

[PJ87]

Installed today

Cars been delayed slightly but because of Xmas etc prob be here in a few more weeks. Which is fine no rush.

Octupus energy been running a few weeks. Dishwasher and washing machine set to the cheap hours .. saving £2.50 a week already which will offset the £5 a week to run the car a bit

Impressed with podpoint for the install clever bit of tech

Can't wait to precondition the car before use .. no more waiting for car to demist .. get in a perfect warm car and the battery will be brought to correct heat preserving life a bit

Love a gadget