Tending the flag

[jammag]

I am not sure if this is the right place for this but here goes. If someone is just off the green and they ask for the flag to be tended, at what point should you remove the flag or if its a quick roll that looks like its going to hit the flag which would benefit the player when do you leave the flag in?

I am not sure on protocol on this and luckily most people I play with have it in or out not tended but it would be good to know for future reference?

 

[Colin L]

There is no rule about when you take the pin out but don't leave it till the last minute in case it worries the other player and in case it sticks (indeed it's a good idea to check that the flagstick is not going to stick before he plays). But never, ever leave the pin in when you are tending it because you think it might benefit the other player. He is unlikely to think the 2 stroke penalty he will get for hitting it much of a benefit. See Rule 17-3a

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

If he is off the green does he have to have it tended? What about those chipping in. They are genuinely going for the hole so is that not thesame thing.

Is it different if the player has a putter in his hand or is the answer in the fact that he asked for it tended?

 

[Colin L]

YOu can have the pin attended from anywhere but it is a choice. If your ball is off the green and hits an unattended flagstick there is no penalty. If your ball is off the green and you ask someone to tend the pin then there is a 2 stroke penalty for hitting the flagstick or the person tending it. If you are on the green there is a 2 stroke penalty for striking the flagstick.

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'd rather hit the pin than risk hitting my playing partner and besides, the chances of me hitting something that thin is millions to one

 

[Kellfire]

Also remember that anyone stood near to the flag stick is adjudged to be tending it and, unless you ask them not to tend the flag, they can act as the attendee and remove the flag even if you had wanted it left in but hadn't voiced that want.

 

[jammag]

Now looking at this rule it really is designed for the pros, as in if the ball hits the attendees foot then its a 2 shot penalty for the person making the stroke. If you were with a complete win at all costs person in a match play what rule is there to stop them cheating when tending the flag for you, as in leave there foot there ball hits there foot and you get a 2 shot penalty.

Would never expect this as it is extreme ungentlemanly conduct but you never know.

 

[duncan mackie]

Now looking at this rule it really is designed for the pros, as in if the ball hits the attendees foot then its a 2 shot penalty for the person making the stroke. If you were with a complete win at all costs person in a match play what rule is there to stop them cheating when tending the flag for you, as in leave there foot there ball hits there foot and you get a 2 shot penalty.

Would never expect this as it is extreme ungentlemanly conduct but you never know.

"If B failed to remove the flagstick for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, B is disqualified, in both match play and stroke play, under Rule 33-7 for taking an action contrary to the spirit of the game."

Same would apply to the foot etc

 

[MashieNiblick]

Rule 1-2 (effectively the second Rule of Golf) is also relevant

"1-2 - Exerting Influence on Movement of Ball or Altering Physical Conditions

A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play or (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.


* PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 1-2:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
* In the case of a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the Committee may impose a penalty of disqualification.

Note 1: A player is deemed to have committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2 if the Committee considers that the action taken in breach of this Rule has allowed him or another player to gain a significant advantage or has placed another player, other than his partner, at a significant disadvantage.

Note 2: In stroke play, except where a serious breach resulting in disqualification is involved, a player in breach of Rule 1-2 in relation to the movement of his own ball must play the ball from where it was stopped, or, if the ball was deflected, from where it came to rest. If the movement of a player’s ball has been intentionally influenced by a fellow-competitor or other outside agency, Rule 1-4 applies to the player (see Note to Rule 19-1)."

 

[duncan mackie]

Rule 1-2 (effectively the second Rule of Golf) is also relevant....

not to the deliberate act associated with causing the other player to have a penalty.

it would come into a situation where a FC was trying to help but not the situation raised here.

 

[6inchcup]

when was the rule changed,i thought you either had to have the pin in or out if off the green,or held in an upright position if the pin was leaning over and narrowing the cup?

 

[Colin L]

I don't know about the history of the rules, but firstly let's sort out a bit of confusion about the present ones.

Off the green you can have the pin in, out or tended. If it is tended, it doesn't have to be held upright (you will see that professional caddies usually hold the pin at an angle away from the player).

What you have picked up about putting the pin upright is, I expect, what you are allowed to do if leaving the pin in when chipping/putting from off the green. If the pin is leaning away from an upright position, the player may leave it as it is or centre it so that it is upright. He may not, however, move the flagstick to a more favourable position.

 

[Heidi]

I am not sure if this is the right place for this but here goes. If someone is just off the green and they ask for the flag to be tended, at what point should you remove the flag or if its a quick roll that looks like its going to hit the flag which would benefit the player when do you leave the flag in?

I am not sure on protocol on this and luckily most people I play with have it in or out not tended but it would be good to know for future reference?

If I;m in a two ball and tending the flag then i take it out as soon as the ball is hit so i can get to my ball and not waste time! Have seen plenty of ladies wait til the ball stops or gets close before they think about taking the flag out and considering their shot. zzzzzz

 

[Shaunmg]

Now I am confused at something I thought there was nothing to be confused at.

I thought tending the flag was meant to show the person putting, where the hole was, if he/she could not see the hole without the flag in place. Then the person tending would remove from flag from hole once the stroke was taken.

I have always played in comps where the rule was understood to be this, the flag could not be tended if you are off the green. The choice was flag in or flag out, but not tended. Is This wrong?

 

[bobmac]

the flag could not be tended if you are off the green. The choice was flag in or flag out, but not tended. Is This wrong?

[video=youtube;ypymb2qkovY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypymb2qkovY&list=UUFeb2vdftHQESr49G8ZorhQ& index=4&feature=plcp[/video]

 

[bladeplayer]

Too much spare time Bob ?

 

[Colin L]

Off the green you can have the pin in, out or tended.

I have always played in comps where the rule was understood to be this, the flag could not be tended if you are off the green. The choice was flag in or flag out, but not tended. Is This wrong?

Well, one of us is wrong - and it isn't me And there's some guy with long blonde hair who agrees.

 

[Foxholer]

I have always played in comps where the rule was understood to be this, the flag could not be tended if you are off the green. The choice was flag in or flag out, but not tended. Is This wrong?

Yes. That is wrong!

While some 'wrong rulings' are because rules have changed, I don't believe this rule (Flagstick) has ever been anything other than what it is now - which is in, out, held up or attended from anywhere. Obviously in while putting from on the green could result in penalty, so not advisable.

So a (quite widespread) myth!

 

[rosecott]

While some 'wrong rulings' are because rules have changed, I don't believe this rule (Flagstick) has ever been anything other than what it is now - which is in, out, held up or attended from anywhere. So a (quite widespread) myth!

Whilst the wording was changed in the 2004 edition of the rules, the previous wording did not preclude the flag being attended for a player playing from off the green:

2000-2004
17-1. FlagstickAttended, Removed or Held Up
Before and during the stroke, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole. This may be done only on the authority of the player before he plays his stroke.
If, prior to the stroke, the flagstick is attended, removed or held up by anyone with the player’s knowledge and no objection is made, the player shall be deemed to have authorised it. If anyone attends or holds up the flagstick or stands near the hole while a stroke is being played, he shall be deemed to be attending the flagstick until the ball comes to rest.

2004-2008
17-1. Flagstick Attended, Removed or Held Up

Before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole.
If the flagstick is not attended, removed or held up before the player makes a stroke, it must not be attended, removed or held up during the stroke or while the player’s ball is in motion if doing so might influence the movement of the ball.
Note 1: If the flagstick is in the hole and anyone stands near it while a stroke is being made, he is deemed to be attending the flagstick.
Note 2: If, prior to the stroke, the flagstick is attended, removed or held up by anyone with the player’s knowledge and he makes no objection, theplayer is deemed to have authorised it.
Note 3: If anyone attends or holds up the flagstick while a stroke is being made, he is deemed to be attending the flagstick until the ball comes to rest.

 

[North Mimms]

Remember Phil Mickleson getting his caddie to tend when he was 100 yards from the green?

sorry about long advert intro

http://tourreport.pgatour.com/2011/12/06/no-10-mickelson-wants-flag-tended/