SG forcing clubs to accept "Open Play" entrants in Opens

[Banchory Buddha]

Just wondered if anyone has heard about this threat from Scottish Golf or if it's urban myth?

I'm not sure if they're forcing clubs to accept Open Play entrants, the posit seems to be that SG have forced third party licensees to remove the option in their back end to exclude anyone not a member of a bona-fide club. Not sure they can really force clubs to accept these non-members could they?

 

[rulefan]

Just wondered if anyone has heard about this threat from Scottish Golf or if it's urban myth?

I'm not sure if they're forcing clubs to accept Open Play entrants, the posit seems to be that SG have forced third party licensees to remove the option in their back end to exclude anyone not a member of a bona-fide club. Not sure they can really force clubs to accept these non-members could they?

Are you suggesting that SG are saying these players can't play on the course or that the club cannot use their software to record the player's score?
If a player is not a member of a 'bona-fide club they cannot have a WHS handicap. If so, why would a club want a record of the score anyway?

When you say 'back end' do you mean the link to WHS or the point at which a player tries to register or enter a score?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Are you suggesting that SG are saying these players can't play on the course or that the club cannot use their software to record the player's score?
If a player is not a member of a 'bona-fide club they cannot have a WHS handicap. If so, why would a club want a record of the score anyway?

When you say 'back end' do you mean the link to WHS or the point at which a player tries to register or enter a score?

No they're saying the opposite, anyone with an "Open Play" membership through SG should be allowed to enter opens despite not being a club member

Back end/Admin System

 

[D-S]

Having just googled it, I think Open Play is Scottish Golf’s version of the EG iGolf.

 

[patricks148]

No they're saying the opposite, anyone with an "Open Play" membership through SG should be allowed to enter opens despite not being a club member

Back end/Admin Systei }heard that some clubs around here, were only taking the OP once the members of clubs had been dealt with. Which is to say mody

heard that some clubs around here, were only taking the OP once the members of clubs had been dealt with. Which is to say most are well supported and booked up within weeks, esp the good ones.

 

[wjemather]

There is no sound basis for clubs excluding legitimate entrants from their opens just because they have chosen (for whatever reason) not to join a traditional golf club or society.

 

[jim8flog]

What happens when a club's condition of entry is that 5 scores must be from competitions.

 

[rulefan]

No they're saying the opposite, anyone with an "Open Play" membership through SG should be allowed to enter opens despite not being a club member

Back end/Admin System

Thanks, got it now.

But are they forcing or simply permitting and facilitating ?
These players now have Official WHS handicaps from Scottish Golf, presumably having to go through the same hoops as club members in order to get them.

Clubs can apply the same entry conditions as they to any other potential entrant (eg Number of competition rounds vs general play)

 

[nickjdavis]

What happens when a club's condition of entry is that 5 scores must be from competitions.

Probably pretty much automatically excludes >95% of iGolf (in England) members.

 

[rulefan]

What happens when a club's condition of entry is that 5 scores must be from competitions.

No different to any other potential entrant. Not all opens will have such an entry condition.

 

[jim8flog]

Probably pretty much automatically excludes >95% of iGolf (in England) members.

precisely why I made the comment.
However I bet there are quite a few that do pairs Opens.

 

[IanM]

There is no sound basis for clubs excluding legitimate entrants from their opens just because they have chosen (for whatever reason) not to join a traditional golf club or society.

Trouble is, it's much harder to identify, "legitimate entrants," from the, "cheating scumbags," who know that their made up handicap is subject to less scrutiny than folk playing regular club competitions.

 

[rulefan]

Probably pretty much automatically excludes >95% of iGolf (in England) members.

As (or if) iGolf and OpenPlay become more popular and clubs needing the extra entry fees open their doors, that %age will come down.
Perhaps BB comps will make a difference.

 

[patricks148]

What happens when a club's condition of entry is that 5 scores must be from competitions.

i though they worded that as "May" and was more for elite/scratch comps or at least thats what was mention ed for Scotland

 

[rulefan]

Trouble is, it's much harder to identify, "legitimate entrants," from the, "cheating scumbags," who know that their made up handicap is subject to less scrutiny than folk playing regular club competitions.

Will that really be the case? I suggest that SG and EG will (and be able to) put more effort/resources into monitoring h'caps than many clubs (it would seem)

 

[nickjdavis]

As (or if) iGolf and OpenPlay become more popular and clubs needing the extra entry fees open their doors, that %age will come down.
Perhaps BB comps will make a difference.

Currently in England iGolf has 41,524 registered users according to the WHS portal.

Total number of registered WHS memberships on the WHS portal is 813,778....so iGolf is just 5.1% of everyone.

Still, at £44 a year membership fee, iGolf is raking in over £1.8 million per annum for England Golf.....so if they cant employ a team of people to manage and monitor iGolf submissions then something is amiss.

 

[IanM]

Will that really be the case? I suggest that SG and EG will (and be able to) put more effort/resources into monitoring h'caps than many clubs (it would seem)

More resources possibly than most clubs, but when you average out how many more individual players under their theoretical jurisdiction, I very much doubt it.

But you raise a great point.

How much resource do the home Unions allocate to mirroring the duties of a handicap committee?

The 41k England players on the scheme equates to about 60 clubs!

 

[rulefan]

More resources possibly than most clubs, but when you average out how many more individual players under their theoretical jurisdiction, I very much doubt it.

But you raise a great point.

How much resource do the home Unions allocate to mirroring the duties of a handicap committee?

The 41k England players on the scheme equates to about 60 clubs!

There are about 1800 clubs in England. I suspect that rather more than 3% (or even 10%) of handicap committees are deficient in some significant way.

 

[IanM]

I suspect it's way more than that

But, I wonder how EG go about managing 40,000 "strangers??"

Even with economies of scale from centralisation, I'd love to know how many folk are on it full time.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

Will that really be the case? I suggest that SG and EG will (and be able to) put more effort/resources into monitoring h'caps than many clubs (it would seem)

How? Apart from this being thousands of "members", they literally don't know a single one, how does Jamie sitting in his plush Edinburgh office know anything about Erchie in Ullapool? The scores posted are just what they are, they cannot make any judgement on how legitimate that scoring sequence is.