SG forcing clubs to accept "Open Play" entrants in Opens

[D-S]

Can they play in the Clubs Comps?

 

[2blue]

As regards the subs, the two clubs localish to me that offer a £1 membership both make their money as pay and play courses. They offer those on these stupidly low subs packages such as paying £x for x% off the play and play rate for a year.
I don’t profess to understand their business model but I do know a few people who have taken membership up there as it represents so much better value than iGolf.

Do you have any further details on what they pay etc?...... EDIT.... Came through as I as I hit Return...... what does the Pay & Play cost?

 

[Crazyface]

1 round can make a decent difference
A guy I play with had an index of 10.8
Shot a legitimate level par round at an away course and got cut to 9
Went from getting 13 shots at home to 11.
2 shot swing in one round...

Ahhhh but he may have already got a load of good scores in. A bad day round drops off and in it's places goes the good round and poof 2 shots gone. I don't think one good round by the bandits would bring their score down a significant amount. Case in point...I've had a poor season HC rose to 18.3 loads of bad rounds in, then at the back end, with certain problems removed from mind, a proper score was entered, but I only dropped 0.3. All the other dross dragged it down.

 

[2blue]

View attachment 51367

THat model does take some understanding.... is it working???

 

[Crazyface]

I've just learned to accept all this nonsense now.
It isn't going to change & quite probably will get worse.
I now just play my own game to the best of my ability & try to score as best as I can to remain a single figure golfer.
What others do is up to them.
I don't bother playing in any home opens & if I play in an away open, I just go with the attitude of enjoying my day out at a different course & hope to play well.
I don't expect to get anywhere near the prizes, the best I can hope for is a 2 or a nearest the pin.

Our course has been shut since before Christmas, but opened yesterday, carry only, freezing cold, windy & boggy.
Yet despite all that, about 20 or so did a qualifier. Mad.
Most of them scored 20 odd points, yet come Spring those same players will be turning in 40 odd points due to their inflated handicap obtained in almost unplayable conditions.
Makes you just shake your head & think Why do it?

A qualifier!!!! In Winter?!!!!!!! Why on earth did your club run a qualifier in winter? Winter is just to try and keep the swing in place and have roll ups surely?

 

[Crazyface]

Also dont forget it took you 10 rounds to rise a shot under the old system how many does it take now?

Exactly

 

[Imurg]

A qualifier!!!! In Winter?!!!!!!! Why on earth did your club run a qualifier in winter? Winter is just to try and keep the swing in place and have roll ups surely?

If conditions are acceptable then why not...?

 

[D-S]

Do you have any further details on what they pay etc?...... EDIT.... Came through as I as I hit Return...... what does the Pay & Play cost?

It’s a pretty good track, we play there perhaps once a year if there is something on at our club and probably the best value available at under £30 at the weekend .

 

[Backache]

Under the old system you could -

• Submit only 3 cards a year to have an Active H/cap
• Have a 'Day in the Sun' round, come down 3 or more shots then take the next 30+ rounds to get back to your 'true playing H/cap'
• Play in a +3 CSS Comp & it is reductions only, so no change in H/cap
• Have very little chance of competing when you played against someone who obtained their H/cap from a more difficult course than yours.

WHS despite a few drawbacks is a far, far fairer system of H/capping for recreational golf.

Now you don't need to have put in any cards at all within the year (or even about 6 years) to have the handicap.
Having a day in the sun round happens maybe it should take a while to adjust upwards
Now the system is literally unknown and unknowable how for instance appalling weather might adjust your handicap . We are kept in the dark like the undeserving plebs we are.
Now we may have less chance against others because it's easier to rig.

I am not desperately anti WHS but I am slightly irritated by a refusal to acknowledge it's limitations and constant accusations made against handicap committees when its evident shortcomings are shown.

 

[2blue]

Now you don't need to have put in any cards at all within the year (or even about 6 years) to have the handicap. BUT... you won't get to win anything until you get some Q rounds in!!
Having a day in the sun round happens maybe it should take a while to adjust upwards Oh yeah...... & unnessecerily ruin most of your season
Now the system is literally unknown and unknowable how for instance appalling weather might adjust your handicap . We are kept in the dark like the undeserving plebs we are. It very simple & impact everyone
Now we may have less chance against others because it's easier to rig. AND.... if we're bnoth playing FAIR one is heavily disadvantaged.... Sorry NO THANKS

I am not desperately anti WHS but I am slightly irritated by a refusal to acknowledge it's limitations and constant accusations made against handicap committees when its evident shortcomings are shown. I guess you are maybe unaware of the ways in which H/cap guys are working to ensure things are as fair as possible.... there's is no PERFECT I'm afraid.

 

[Captain_Black.]

A qualifier!!!! In Winter?!!!!!!! Why on earth did your club run a qualifier in winter? Winter is just to try and keep the swing in place and have roll ups surely?

Because a certain section within the club are a law unto themselves.
Sure, if the conditions permit, then fine.
But on the 1st day back after a prolonged closure due to flooding & now the temp has dropped to zero with a howling wind, you just have to ask, why?
Absolutely crazy.

I'm firmly of the opinion that the vast majority of UK parkland courses would benefit from a golf season for qualifiers, probably between the clocks changing (end of March / end of October)

 

[Backache]

There is no requirement under WHS to have any qualifying rounds it is up to the club as far as I know and you need have no cards at all competitively to win something.

Your season is ruined any way if you are a low handicapper who seem unable to win many mass entrant Stablefords.

I don't know how it can be very simple no one knows what it is ..


As around 90 % of club courses appear to have slopes between about 120 and 135 or so I cant see that its likely that many club golfers were heavily disadvantaged by this maybe a few but most must play to within a couple of strokes of what they would have done.

I'm not saying anything can or can't be perfect the new system is certainly far more opaque yet easier to cheat neither of which are forward moves in my book lets hope things improve.

 

[wjemather]

Now you don't need to have put in any cards at all within the year (or even about 6 years) to have the handicap.

Not strictly true. Rule 1.3(i) means that players must "act with integrity" and "submit acceptable scores to provide reasonable evidence of their demonstrated ability" in order to have a handicap.

 

[wjemather]

Your season is ruined any way if you are a low handicapper who seem unable to win many mass entrant Stablefords.

If you played 2 mass (100+) entrant Stablefords every week, winning once in a year would be your fair share; winning many would be more than your fair share.

 

[SteveJay]

Not strictly true. Rule 1.3(i) means that players must "act with integrity" and "submit acceptable scores to provide reasonable evidence of their demonstrated ability" in order to have a handicap.

And how exactly can that be policed or enforced (for all those unscrupulous golfers out there?)

 

[wjemather]

And how exactly can that be policed or enforced (for all those unscrupulous golfers out there?)

Vigilance & diligence - of handicap committees and other players. There is virtually no chance of someone maintaining a handicap that is wildly different from their ability without someone else knowing about it.

 

[2blue]

And how exactly can that be policed or enforced (for all those unscrupulous golfers out there?)

If you really think that the sport is as corrupt as that just go Indoor Bowling instead.... good luck!!

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Under the old system you could -

• Submit only 3 cards a year to have an Active H/cap
• Have a 'Day in the Sun' round, come down 3 or more shots then take the next 30+ rounds to get back to your 'true playing H/cap'
• Play in a +3 CSS Comp & it is reductions only, so no change in H/cap
• Have very little chance of competing when you played against someone who obtained their H/cap from a more difficult course than yours.

WHS despite a few drawbacks is a far, far fairer system of H/capping for recreational golf.

This is nonsense. The SSS largely took care of that as CR does now, it was the only faulty part of the old system in that ratings were sometimes wrong (too high or low), and it's the part that's been retained so that hasn't changed.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

There is no requirement under WHS to have any qualifying rounds it is up to the club as far as I know and you need have no cards at all competitively to win something.

Indeed there isn't which is why every state in the USA (well northern ones at least) have non-qualifying periods in the year.

However when WHS launched SG (and I presume the other UK countries?) stated firmly that if your course was measured and open for play then cards could go in all year round, there was no winter period, or winter handicap, run a comp off a full course and it goes against your handicap. The outcome of this is patently clear, those courses that can keep on a full course are going to see their members handicaps rocket over the winter.

 

[wjemather]

This is nonsense. The SSS largely took care of that as CR does now, it was the only faulty part of the old system in that ratings were sometimes wrong (too high or low), and it's the part that's been retained so that hasn't changed.

It really didn't. For the vast majority of players, Slope provides the noticeable relative difficulty adjustment. Under the old system, players from a course with a low Slope Rating couldn't hope to compete fairly against players from a course with a high Slope Rating.

Indeed there isn't which is why every state in the USA (well northern ones at least) have non-qualifying periods in the year.

However when WHS launched SG (and I presume the other UK countries?) stated firmly that if your course was measured and open for play then cards could go in all year round, there was no winter period, or winter handicap, run a comp off a full course and it goes against your handicap. The outcome of this is patently clear, those courses that can keep on a full course are going to see their members handicaps rocket over the winter.

More than a third of the states have a year-round active playing season: https://www.usga.org/handicapping-articles/handicap-active-and-inactive-season-schedule-25489.html
The climate of the northern states means (non-frozen) golf is not possible for several months of the year, so it makes sense to have defined active/inactive seasons. The climate of GB&I means that golf is generally playable all year round, except for specific courses and (usually) short periods of adverse weather. However, even if a measured and rated course is open, is must still be in suitable condition; if conditions are exceptionally poor, submission of scores for handicapping may be suspended.