Tee Times - Staying or Going

[Orikoru]

I can't really do it justice by paraphrasing so here is a full copy and paste of the new email we got regarding tee times. Have you ever seen anything more unnecessarily convoluted?? Enjoy...

Saturday AM
1st tee - times booked through IG between 8.00 and 10:00.
10th tee - no booking required, just roll up and go off between 8.00 and 10:00. Players must book in with the Pro Shop before going out.
No play between 10:00 and 12:30 from either tee.

Saturday PM
10th tee - times booked through IG between 12:30 and 14:30.
1st tee - no booking required, just roll up and go off between 12:30 and 14:30. Players must book in with the Pro Shop before going out.
No play between 14:30 and 16:30 from either tee.

Sunday AM
No booking required, just roll up and go off between 8.00 and 9.15 am from 1st, 8th & 13th tees. Players must book in with the Pro Shop before going out.
No play between 9:15 and 12:30 from any tee.

Sunday PM
1st tee - times booked through IG between 12:30 and 14:30.
10th tee - no booking required, just roll up and go off between 12:30 and 14:30. Players must book in with the Pro Shop before going out.1 2.
No play between 14:30 and 16:30 from either tee.

Monday to Friday
Tee booking only off 1st tee and 10th tee.
Some tees & times will be reserved for the various rollups groups, Club matches, Societies etc.

Really left me scratching my head. My biggest disappointment when they got rid of tee booking was that I could no longer play at the times I want - and this doesn't even address that issue, I still can't. But at least it's much more complicated, so that's cool.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I can't really do it justice by paraphrasing so here is a full copy and paste of the new email we got regarding tee times. Have you ever seen anything more unnecessarily convoluted?? Enjoy...



Really left me scratching my head. My biggest disappointment when they got rid of tee booking was that I could no longer play at the times I want - and this doesn't even address that issue, I still can't. But at least it's much more complicated, so that's cool.

My sympathies. looks like a really hopeless attempt to please all the people all the time, which never works, of course.
Got my fingers crossed about our "management decision" coming up soon. Full booking system everyday got my vote.

 

[IanM]

Really left me scratching my head. My biggest disappointment when they got rid of tee booking was that I could no longer play at the times I want - and this doesn't even address that issue, I still can't. But at least it's much more complicated, so that's cool.

Unless you play off the 10th??? ... but presumably that includes the lottery of queuing up.

 

[Slab]

I can't really do it justice by paraphrasing so here is a full copy and paste of the new email we got regarding tee times. Have you ever seen anything more unnecessarily convoluted?? Enjoy...



Really left me scratching my head. My biggest disappointment when they got rid of tee booking was that I could no longer play at the times I want - and this doesn't even address that issue, I still can't. But at least it's much more complicated, so that's cool.

Do they use two starters or are the tees close enough together that one person can do both 1st & 10th ?

 

[Orikoru]

Do they use two starters or are the tees close enough together that one person can do both 1st & 10th ?

Pretty sure we don't have starters, but then I've never actually gone to the morning toss-up for tee-times so I could be wrong. The 10th tee isn't visible from the pro shop, but I think people just convene there to be grouped up and sent out. I don't really know.

Unless you play off the 10th??? ... but presumably that includes the lottery of queuing up.

I'm not sure you read it right or you didn't understand what I meant - there's no teeing off between 10 and 12:30 from any tee at all, which I think is stupid and wrong.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not sure you read it right or you didn't understand what I meant - there's no teeing off between 10 and 12:30 from any tee at all, which I think is stupid and wrong.

Presumably this is to allow those starting earlier off 1 & 10 to do their second 9 without being held up. Is that right?

If I am right that also suggests that rounds at your place take 5hrs which seems excessive.

 

[IanM]

I'm not sure you read it right or you didn't understand what I meant - there's no teeing off between 10 and 12:30 from any tee at all, which I think is stupid and wrong.

Sorry, I didn't read it right. If you can only play between the times when the tees are closed to allow folk to play "their" back 9s. you have two choices.... change clubs, or change your arrangements. That's not very helpful, but it's the truth. The club have made a decision based on what they think the majority want, there will be others that doesn't suit.

If you haven't paid a joining fee that would keep you there or have a way of getting a vote to change the process, I would be off pronto.

 

[sweaty sock]

Yeah sympathise, that would definitely not be my favorite way of organising tee times!!

It would be interesting to see which tee is busier/more organised just as an idication of what the mahority actually want.

Of it was me, I'd go for the booking option, but i suppose if I failed to get a booking, id turn up at the pro shop and hope i was in time for another spot on the other tee.

If its so busy that the pro turns people away, then for me that should be 100% booking, why make people organise there lifes around the off chance they are golfing - barmy!!

It takes literally seconds to book on brs or similar, i just cant see the downside?

 

[Mandofred]

In all fairness to Phil, I too can't see anything good about a group that believe they are entitled to a prime tee time, because they can't be bothered to book like everyone else.

This might be a bit long...

Who says that groups believe they are entitled to prime time tee slots? I sure haven't. At my home club (before lockdowns) I played in 2 roll ups, Wed and Sat at 9am....prime time. After adjusting my views because of what I've read on this site....I've made suggestions a number of times to people in our roll ups about giving up that time slot and move it later in the day as a compromise with people who don't want to play in a roll up....a lot of people said they would fine with that. No action so far....but I'll keep trying. When I first joined this site at the beginning of lockdown I was a little shocked at the pure hatred some people have towards roll ups. After having quite a few discussions with people on this site I realized that there were quite a few different versions of roll ups. I didn't stick to my one way of understanding something....I took in views from other people and adjusted my views accordingly. I've come to realize that (in my opinion) with the way some roll ups were happening, I'm not surprised that some people hate them. Going back to the "old way" of just showing up and hoping you can get on the course is something that would cause me to quit playing golf entirely. I like the booking system, and have stated so many times. But....the booking system can be used to build a compromised system of booking where people who like roll ups can get their way, and people who don't like roll ups can get their way. It doesn't have to be one way or another. If you (meaning everybody including me) are not willing to make some concessions to other people's point of view and needs.....you are just being selfish.

When I joined my home club 6+ years ago, I just figured the roll ups that we were doing were about the same everywhere. Again, after many discussions here...that just isn't true.
Things that happen in our roll ups.
1. There were agreed times with the club on when roll ups were to take place. Everybody who is a member was aware of these times. When I joined I was handed a paper with the groups and playing times on it....easy peasy. Anybody male/female/both/neither gets to play..... I've never seen too many people show up, but it's come awfully close a few times. Wasted tee times if less people show up.....just isn't a problem. Allows for a little more room in the round for people behind us not to get jammed up.....which makes people happy.
2. You just show up on the day/time by 8:45am (the roll up I was in). Once there we had laminated cards with our names on it that we put on a shelf in the locker room.
3. The person in charge that day mixed up the cards and drew out 3-4 cards for each group. The first names immediately headed up to the 1st tee.
4. If a 4 ball, pairs played against the other pair..... .50P front nine, .50P back nine, and a Pound on the round. I don't get anything out of gambling, win or lose....just doesn't do anything for me. But I do like the pair interaction of trying to win over the other 2 people.
5. When finished, you plopped down another 2 Pounds to cover various things like the 2 best individual scores and maybe a 2's pot. We grouped up in the upstairs of the club and talked, ate, insulted, bragged, cried until everybody had finished.
6. Anybody who had something they needed to do could request to go out in the first group or two so they didn't waste their time....which is something a lot of people on this site keep mentioning. They could get a tee time that worked for them and were welcome members of the roll up.

Other than the fact....and it is a fact.....that this particular roll up took place during prime time....I don't see how this roll up was a waste of time for someone wanting to play in it. Now....for those people who only want to play with their mates....it doesn't work. But.....I return to the subject of being selfish. I know a lot of the people I play with are willing to make compromises, just because that's is the mature way to deal with the tee time jam up in the mornings (weekends mostly). There are lots of people who just want to get their way....no compromise.....just selfishness. There are people in the roll ups like this, I wish there weren't...but there are. There are also people who don't want to be in a roll up like this....they just want their way, anything else is wrong to them.

There are golfers here who play on jam packed golf courses...fighting for every tee time. That's not what I deal with.....and if things were that ruthless where I play I would pack it in. Just for the heck of it I checked on tee times this morning at my home club, and tomorrow morning (it had already blocked out this mornings times so I couldn't look) at the 2nd club.

Home course: from 7-8am, 3 completely unused tee times.
8-9am, 2 unused tee times.
9-10, 1 unused time.
2nd club: 6:45- 7:15 only 3 people total.
7:25-9:05 Senior stableford.....blocked times.
9:15-10:25 Seniors vs Catterick. blocked times.
10:35- 12:00 7 tee times completely free.

Don't make judgements for everybody......each course is different.

 

[Orikoru]

Presumably this is to allow those starting earlier off 1 & 10 to do their second 9 without being held up. Is that right?

If I am right that also suggests that rounds at your place take 5hrs which seems excessive.

I didn't check the maths but that really would be silly. Our course is short, even 4 hours would be a bit of a long one. Maybe ok for a four ball. With my usual three-ball it's 3.5 hours unless we're held up, I even went round on my own in 2 hours 10 the other day, and while I'm reasonably quick I wouldn't say I sprint round. Say the last morning tee time is at 9:50, it shouldn't be anymore than two hours (round up 10 mins for leeway let's say) to play the first nine, so even on that basis we should be able to tee off at 12 rather than 12:30. Unless they actually want the course to be empty for that half an hour to even things out, I don't know. They've obviously put some thought into it - maybe too much thought.

Sorry, I didn't read it right. If you can only play between the times when the tees are closed to allow folk to play "their" back 9s. you have two choices.... change clubs, or change your arrangements. That's not very helpful, but it's the truth. The club have made a decision based on what they think the majority want, there will be others that doesn't suit.

If you haven't paid a joining fee that would keep you there or have a way of getting a vote to change the process, I would be off pronto.

Yeah, I agree with you. This is only our first year here still, when we joined it was tee bookings and we loved it, I like the course, the clubhouse everything. It's just a shame they've thrown us this curveball, and I do realise there's a chance that me and my friends are the only ones not happy with it. They've said it's still work in progress, so at the moment I'm just sending my feedback whilst trying not to sound too moany. But if it doesn't work for us for the remainder of the year, then next year when renewal time rolls around we would probably look to move elsewhere.

I also think it's a shame that there doesn't seem to have been any process of actually asking the members what they'd prefer though, no vote or questionnaire or anything. They're just going full trial and error.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

I didn't check the maths but that really would be silly. Our course is short, even 4 hours would be a bit of a long one. Maybe ok for a four ball. With my usual three-ball it's 3.5 hours unless we're held up, I even went round on my own in 2 hours 10 the other day, and while I'm reasonably quick I wouldn't say I sprint round. Say the last morning tee time is at 9:50, it shouldn't be anymore than two hours (round up 10 mins for leeway let's say) to play the first nine, so even on that basis we should be able to tee off at 12 rather than 12:30. Unless they actually want the course to be empty for that half an hour to even things out, I don't know. They've obviously put some thought into it - maybe too much thought.


Yeah, I agree with you. This is only our first year here still, when we joined it was tee bookings and we loved it, I like the course, the clubhouse everything. It's just a shame they've thrown us this curveball, and I do realise there's a chance that me and my friends are the only ones not happy with it. They've said it's still work in progress, so at the moment I'm just sending my feedback whilst trying not to sound too moany. But if it doesn't work for us for the remainder of the year, then next year when renewal time rolls around we would probably look to move elsewhere.

I also think it's a shame that there doesn't seem to have been any process of actually asking the members what they'd prefer though, no vote or questionnaire or anything. They're just going full trial and error.

If they're not proactive in asking members then the best thing to do is get in touch with them yourself.

I assume you have a secretary or course manager, drop them an email or something to let them know what you think.

That's what I would be doing in your position.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I didn't check the maths but that really would be silly. Our course is short, even 4 hours would be a bit of a long one. Maybe ok for a four ball. With my usual three-ball it's 3.5 hours unless we're held up, I even went round on my own in 2 hours 10 the other day, and while I'm reasonably quick I wouldn't say I sprint round. Say the last morning tee time is at 9:50, it shouldn't be anymore than two hours (round up 10 mins for leeway let's say) to play the first nine, so even on that basis we should be able to tee off at 12 rather than 12:30. Unless they actually want the course to be empty for that half an hour to even things out, I don't know. They've obviously put some thought into it - maybe too much thought.

I'm pretty sure that is the theory behind the idea, they just have their maths wrong. 2 tee starts are always tricky so there is some logic to it. It just needs refining, or go to a single tee start like most places.

 

[Orikoru]

If they're not proactive in asking members then the best thing to do is get in touch with them yourself.

I assume you have a secretary or course manager, drop them an email or something to let them know what you think.

That's what I would be doing in your position.

Yeah I've already emailed them before when they initially changed it, I'm still drafting another response to this latest attempt.

 

[Neilds]

Just had a vote at our place, 85% of members voted which I thought was really good. Vote was 4-1 in favour of having tee times which I think is good considering it was no bookings before the pandemic.

 

[Mandofred]

Just had a vote at our place, 85% of members voted which I thought was really good. Vote was 4-1 in favour of having tee times which I think is good considering it was no bookings before the pandemic.

I'd say 85% is amazing. People must have really been motivated.

 

[backwoodsman]

We were "no tees times" before the pandemic but then, obviously, had to bring them in. We've since had a survey, and although I've not seen the official results, I'm told it was about 75% in favour of tee times (with a very good level of response apparently). Which was a surprise, but seems fairly definitive. However, I do know that many people (me included) voted "yes" with a stated qualification of "yes, provided that roll-ups can be somehow accommodated". I am still waiting to find out how many of the 75% fall into that category - I'm guessing it's a significant proportion.

Either way, the final decision will (eventually) be a club-wide vote.

 

[Imurg]

Voting form handed in this morning...all proxy votes to be in by Tuesday...vote on Thursday...
We need 75% in favour to make the change...
I know it's in the rules but doesn't seem very democratic..

 

[IanM]

Our "Seniors" cant have roll ups at the mo but have devised a "cunning plan"...

An email goes round the distribution list and you reply on a webform to state your intention to play in it on the given day. The Seniors Sec does a draw and emails back groupings. The first named in the 3 ball is responsible for booking the starting time for the three of them. They do this between the "old times" that they used to do the roll up. (They used go do a draw of those present in the morning)

Seems to be a good compromise.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Our "Seniors" cant have roll ups at the mo but have devised a "cunning plan"...

An email goes round the distribution list and you reply on a webform to state your intention to play in it on the given day. The Seniors Sec does a draw and emails back groupings. The first named in the 3 ball is responsible for booking the starting time for the three of them. They do this between the "old times" that they used to do the roll up. (They used go do a draw of those present in the morning)

Seems to be a good compromise.

That’s exactly how are old rolls up and swindles organise themselves now but they mainly use whats app groups

It’s working well for people at the moment it seems

 

[Voyager EMH]

Our "Seniors" cant have roll ups at the mo but have devised a "cunning plan"...

An email goes round the distribution list and you reply on a webform to state your intention to play in it on the given day. The Seniors Sec does a draw and emails back groupings. The first named in the 3 ball is responsible for booking the starting time for the three of them. They do this between the "old times" that they used to do the roll up. (They used go do a draw of those present in the morning)

Seems to be a good compromise.

Pretty much what we did in December. (Not a specifically seniors group) More trouble than its worth now. Just email organiser AFTER your name is on the start sheet, having booked with the same opportunity that every member has to play at those times. Even simpler and, most importantly, fairer to all members with regards to the opportunity to play at specific times. No problem if two of you are in the "roll-up" and two of you are not when you go out to play.