Submitting scores on a Captain's Away Day

[Crow]

46 votes yet 161 replies going round in circles.

I seriously think my time here might be done.

 

[Leftitshort]

46 votes yet 161 replies going round in circles.

I seriously think my time here might be done.

Yes mate. I’m bored now

 

[Swango1980]

Yes mate. I’m bored now

Yet you are still here and commenting. Not that bored

I suspect the Poll is a bit flawed anyway. I think the title has been jumped on by anyone that has a real sensitive issue around submitting scores, and thus biased the vote in that direction. I suspect the vast majority of golfers don't care, are happy enough entering scores in competitions and just didn't have the interest in participating in this poll.

I think Liverpool highlighted this well, when he said 87 out of 88 players entered a score for his last Captains away day. Therefore 98.9% of golfers in that scenario were not worried about missing qualification to the English Amateur Championship, not worried about playing badly and getting a handicap increase, not worried about playing well and getting a reduction, not worried about what alcohol would do to their performance and were not worried it would be less fun. There was maybe only one golfer that day that might have used any of these excuses to not submit a score. Then again, they may have had a much more genuine excuse, like injury. No idea.

 

[RichA]

Yet you are still here and commenting. Not that bored

I suspect the Poll is a bit flawed anyway. I think the title has been jumped on by anyone that has a real sensitive issue around submitting scores, and thus biased the vote in that direction. I suspect the vast majority of golfers don't care, are happy enough entering scores in competitions and just didn't have the interest in participating in this poll.

I think Liverpool highlighted this well, when he said 87 out of 88 players entered a score for his last Captains away day. Therefore 98.9% of golfers in that scenario were not worried about missing qualification to the English Amateur Championship, not worried about playing badly and getting a handicap increase, not worried about playing well and getting a reduction, not worried about what alcohol would do to their performance and were not worried it would be less fun. There was maybe only one golfer that day that might have used any of these excuses to not submit a score. Then again, they may have had a much more genuine excuse, like injury. No idea.

Not the first golfer to claim a flawed poll after a loss.
And you still keep using reductive extremes of drunkenness and nursing of elite amateur status as the only possible explanations for anyone disagreeing with you, while ignoring what most people are actually saying.

 

[Backache]

46 votes yet 161 replies going round in circles.

I seriously think my time here might be done.

Possibly a lot of people getting a little fed up with too much bad weather to play golf.
Bit of a storm in a tea cup.
Even though many including myself probably don't say it your input on here is most enjoyable please don't go.

 

[Backsticks]

I'm not having a go, and I'm genuinely enjoying the debate. But you've just given me another top line in terms of making excuses not to submit a score. "I'm going to look to make memories" . I think that tops my list so far

Before WHS, my mindset was definitely that of only submitting comp scores for handicap. I was handicap sec at my club, and maybe only had 4 or 5 supplementary scores a week, and these were from golfers who never played comps, so used it as a way to keep handicap up to date. So, I understand the mentality of not putting scores in for non competitions, as that is how I felt at one time. I'd make all the same arguments, mentality is different in comps than it is non-comps. But, it works differently for different golfers, some better in comps, some worse in comps.

When WHS came in, I started to submit GP scores. I probably did it more to test the howdidido and MyEG Apps, so I could identify bugs and inform members who also used them, rather than because I thought submitting GP scores was a good idea. However, as I continued to do it, I started to really like the idea, and enjoyed the fact that each round had an impact, and that my handicap would be as up to date as I can get it. My mentality and emotions might be different in certain events, but I'm still ultimately always trying to do well. I might not take GP rounds so seriously, but I've still shot many incredibly good GP scores. In fact, my best rounds and worst rounds are probably all GP scores, and ultimately including them makes no major difference to what my handicap would be.

So, although I now find people making excuses about not submitting scores "laughable", I too had that mindset several years ago. So, looking back, I find my view on that specific point at the time "laughable" as well. Hence, I'm not trying to be nasty to those with a different view, just saying what I think of that view now, even though I probably held it previously. I also feel like more and more golfers are slowly coming round to the idea of submitting scores, but it obviously takes a lot of time for many golfers to adapt to the idea of "change". Whereas it was accelerated for me, more out of necessity really.

Putting in cards all the time probably works OK, if it goes hand in hand with a more lax attitude to the rules than we might be used to in competition rounds. Allowing an occasional mulligan, gimmes inside 4 ft, and generously favouring relief drops, probably makes it work, and so you can massage the score back into your normal range. I would be OK with that, effectively knowing that if I have a few loose ones, there is a corrective mechanism that nullifies them. It would require everyone taking the same approach though, and if different people operate differently, then we are back to the same problem.
Is the problem that we have adopted the American system, but not the American way of playing. And so have a mess.
Maybe EG should have been clearer, and we have to assume they considered this issue, in explaining that putting in cards all them time requires a more creative way of marking your score to prevent it distorting, or being misaligned, with your cards from competitive rounds.
I would be willing to change, and submit GP rounds even when not trying, but fix the scores as it were. Both approaches can work I guess, just we are caught between two stools at the moment.

 

[wjemather]

Putting in cards all the time probably works OK, if it goes hand in hand with a more lax attitude to the rules than we might be used to in competition rounds. Allowing an occasional mulligan, gimmes inside 4 ft, and generously favouring relief drops, probably makes it work, and so you can massage the score back into your normal range. I would be OK with that, effectively knowing that if I have a few loose ones, there is a corrective mechanism that nullifies them. It would require everyone taking the same approach, and if different people operate differently, then we are back to the same problem.
Is the problem that we have adopted the American system, but not the American way of playing. And so have a mess.
Maybe EG should have been clearer, and we have to assume they considered this issue, in explaining that putting in cards all them time requires a more creative way of marking your score to prevent it distorting, or being misaligned, with your cards from competitive rounds.
I would be willing to change, and submit GP rounds even when not trying, but fix the scores as it were. But approaches can work I guess, just we are caught between two stools at the moment.

Truly astonishing disregard for any sort of integrity.

 

[Swango1980]

Putting in cards all the time probably works OK, if it goes hand in hand with a more lax attitude to the rules than we might be used to in competition rounds. Allowing an occasional mulligan, gimmes inside 4 ft, and generously favouring relief drops, probably makes it work, and so you can massage the score back into your normal range. I would be OK with that, effectively knowing that if I have a few loose ones, there is a corrective mechanism that nullifies them. It would require everyone taking the same approach though, and if different people operate differently, then we are back to the same problem.
Is the problem that we have adopted the American system, but not the American way of playing. And so have a mess.
Maybe EG should have been clearer, and we have to assume they considered this issue, in explaining that putting in cards all them time requires a more creative way of marking your score to prevent it distorting, or being misaligned, with your cards from competitive rounds.
I would be willing to change, and submit GP rounds even when not trying, but fix the scores as it were. Both approaches can work I guess, just we are caught between two stools at the moment.

I've no issue with mates going out and playing golf how they like. Match play, mulligans, whatever. I'm not in the camp that every single score must be entered as soon as a player tees off on a round.

My comments are simply related to the OP, where a competition is being played to the Rules of Golf.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Amazed by how many golfers are prepared to withhold scoring information to embellish their handicaps one way or the other.
This thread has been a real eye opener.

 

[Backsticks]

I've no issue with mates going out and playing golf how they like. Match play, mulligans, whatever. I'm not in the camp that every single score must be entered as soon as a player tees off on a round.

My comments are simply related to the OP, where a competition is being played to the Rules of Golf.

Agree certainly. If you are signing up / the agreement with fellow competitors is that its according to the rules of golf, then you have to play to the rules too, try your best, and submit your card. If you arent willing to do that, then take yourself out of the competition.
Your options then are :
- dont play at all. Not much fun in that
- submit a GP card and adjust your figures to correct for the fact that you arent really trying
- play, but dont submit a card.

The first is clearly not a real option. So you have the bottom two. Unfortunately, at the moment, we have some doing the 2nd, some doing the 3rd. That discrepancy is the core of the problem. But guessing its more like 90% not submitting, 10% 'correcting' their score. Why do we want to urge more people to the latter group ? I just dont see the benefit.

 

[Swango1980]

Not the first golfer to claim a flawed poll after a loss.
And you still keep using reductive extremes of drunkenness and nursing of elite amateur status as the only possible explanations for anyone disagreeing with you, while ignoring what most people are actually saying.

I think I've basically replied to every single "excuse" not to hand in a card (possibly why those that don't want to hand in a score are getting frustrated). Whereas quite a few have happily ignored some of my posts that may provide a solution, such as players able to opt out of the competition element and just turning up to play for fun. After all, if they are genuinely going to play badly due to a certain mindset, I'd personally have no issue with them at least being there, contributing to the banter even though they aren't in the overall competition (that uses handicaps)

But, as for those that say their handicap will be a lot higher if they submitted scores like this, that is simply specific to them. Although, I don't believe this would be actually true, because if they play at least 30 qualifiers a year (which is easy apparently), then I'm not sure how they think playing in 2 or 3 charity type days, and playing poorly, is going to make a huge impact to their scores anyway. But, if we look more generally, I think more golfers would theoretically play better on Captain's Away Days. After all, if I've got another Sunday Stableford to play, one of the 30-50 qualifiers I play a year, I don't think I'll be overly fussed or prepared for it. Just turn up and go through the motions. But, if I have the annual captains away day, I really want to try and put in a good display on that day. So I may practice a bit beforehand, but I certainly will try and focus more on the day. It would be really disappointing, to me, if I just turned up like any other comp, played rubbish, sacrificed lots of shots by trying to be a hero and ended up with 20-25 points.

 

[Backsticks]

A

Truly astonishing disregard for any sort of integrity.

As Lance Armstrong put it I think, its only cheating if you are taking an advantage over others. If others are doing the same, then there is no lack of integrity. The every-round-is-a-card-round approach requires this change of tight rules attitude. We might have laughed at our USA cousins on this in the past, but if we are truly to embrace their handicap system, than we must change our views accordingly to make it work here.

 

[Swango1980]

Agree certainly. If you are signing up / the agreement with fellow competitors is that its according to the rules of golf, then you have to play to the rules too, try your best, and submit your card. If you arent willing to do that, then take yourself out of the competition.
Your options then are :
- dont play at all. Not much fun in that
- submit a GP card and adjust your figures to correct for the fact that you arent really trying
- play, but dont submit a card.

The first is clearly not a real option. So you have the bottom two. Unfortunately, at the moment, we have some doing the 2nd, some doing the 3rd. That discrepancy is the core of the problem. But guessing its more like 90% not submitting, 10% 'correcting' their score. Why do we want to urge more people to the latter group ? I just dont see the benefit.

I'm not sure I'm following you.

You 1st option is certainly no fun at all. But, that is why I suggested that the Captain could still invite you along, and you simply aren't part of the competition. That shouldn't be a problem, as the golfer has already said they just want to be there for the fun of it, and they are not competitive as they play differently in such events

The 2nd option is obviously just cheating, and I've yet to hear of anyone definitively making up scores (not saying it doesn't happen, but I doubt anyone in here would do such things?)

The 3rd option wouldn't be possible if the competition was a "qualifier" and the player was signed up to that. I mean, they could refuse to submit their score, but then that requires penalty scores and opening that can of worms for the handicap sec.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

Putting in cards all the time probably works OK, if it goes hand in hand with a more lax attitude to the rules than we might be used to in competition rounds. Allowing an occasional mulligan, gimmes inside 4 ft, and generously favouring relief drops, probably makes it work, and so you can massage the score back into your normal range. I would be OK with that, effectively knowing that if I have a few loose ones, there is a corrective mechanism that nullifies them. It would require everyone taking the same approach though, and if different people operate differently, then we are back to the same problem.
Is the problem that we have adopted the American system, but not the American way of playing. And so have a mess.
Maybe EG should have been clearer, and we have to assume they considered this issue, in explaining that putting in cards all them time requires a more creative way of marking your score to prevent it distorting, or being misaligned, with your cards from competitive rounds.
I would be willing to change, and submit GP rounds even when not trying, but fix the scores as it were. Both approaches can work I guess, just we are caught between two stools at the moment.

Seriously, what planet are you on?

 

[Voyager EMH]

I haven't voted yet.
So many interesting opinions being expressed, I'm gathering information and mulling it over.
I expect my decision will come in the next few days.
Maybe next week.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I haven't voted yet.
So many interesting opinions being expressed, I'm gathering information and mulling it over.
I expect my decision will come in the next few days.
Maybe next week.

Jeez, how do you expect the rest of us to sleep. Speed up your decision man, the good health of many on here depends on it.

 

[Swango1980]

Jeez, how do you expect the rest of us to sleep. Speed up your decision man, the good health of many on here depends on it.

Had it been a vote on whether CR-Par should be included within the Course Handicap, I suspect his vote would have appeared instantaneously

 

[Voyager EMH]

Had it been a vote on whether CR-Par should be included within the Course Handicap, I suspect his vote would have appeared instantaneously

That would all revolve around the interpretation of "should".
It need not be included. It is going to be included.
My opinion is that it ought not to be included.
I am in a minority, so perhaps it should be included.

 

[rulefan]

Our Captain's away day is intended to be an enjoyable day out. There are generous prizes on an excellent course and high quality golf will undoubtedly be played.
The 'fun' starts at the bar after the golf and continues with jokes, shaggy dog stories and possibly drunken orgies until the coach returns to the club.
As everyone will be trying for a prize and/or boasting rights, they will be attempting to play good golf.
I confidently expect it will be a qualifying competition

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

I shall be writing to my Committee to ask if they can make many more competitions "non-qualifiers". Despite being in the minority, it has now become clear that club golfers have much more fun if they don't need to return a score for handicap. Apparently they can drink loads as well (who is actually driving to this Captain's Away Day?). And it means really low handicappers can play without fear of losing a good score and getting a handicap increase.

Growing the game

Designated drivers, such as coach drivers.