Submitting scores on a Captain's Away Day

[moogie]

It is very much binary for the handicap police - it’s one way or no way

It’s why most prefer to use common sense and treat people like adults

Most of the people I know when they go on society days or charity days etc 9/10 they will put a card in through their own choice - just as loads of us did for H4H

That’s the good thing -it gives people the choice , they don’t need to be dictated to by people when going on what’s essentially a fun golf day out , if people want to put a card in then it’s their choice

Calling people cheats etc just shows how some are unable to think for themselves and I suspect for them are more fans of the rules than the sport.

Some of them need to understand why most of us play this game

Choice....
That's the key word

 

[Leftitshort]

Oh dear I'm in a real quandary now.
I've organised a trip away with a few mates last week in March to East lothian area.
I've even had the stupidness to take money off them for the sweeps kitty.
Now I'm guessing as it's 'organised', I've now got to tell all the lads they've got to put their scores into the EG app??
Or do I just keep their cards and give them to the relevant handicap secretary once we've returned home??

I feel bad now for 'organising' a lads away golf trip to play new courses
I only had good intentions when I did this

Insist they play Medal & putt out for everything otherwise you are letting yourself & the wider golfer universe down

 

[Swango1980]

If they play with a mate, they can put a card in on the egu app. Every round over a measured course should count towards handicap apparently

Yeah, they can. And so I'd definitely encourage it.

But, if they were playing Match Play, gimmes, etc. then no, they don't have to.

But, again, your deflecting from the OP. We are not talking about two mates going out for a round. We are talking about a competition that is organised by the Captain, and it satisfied the Rules of Golf. Comp organised by the golf club, qualifier no problem. Competition organised by Captain, suddenly golfers panic at the thought of it being a qualifier. Strange.

As for the PCC, sure there are arguments about how well it actually works (I think it was changed last year). But, that is also a different argument, I was simply making the point that PCC does apply, unlike CSS which only kicked in if a comp was run through the club ISV and specific to those in the competition

 

[Swango1980]

Oh dear I'm in a real quandary now.
I've organised a trip away with a few mates last week in March to East lothian area.
I've even had the stupidness to take money off them for the sweeps kitty.
Now I'm guessing as it's 'organised', I've now got to tell all the lads they've got to put their scores into the EG app??
Or do I just keep their cards and give them to the relevant handicap secretary once we've returned home??

I feel bad now for 'organising' a lads away golf trip to play new courses
I only had good intentions when I did this

You are forgiven. Your intentions were good, and you were unaware of the Rules of Handicapping. No doubt you will make a better, more informed decision next time

 

[PNWokingham]

Well, we've learned one thing for certain. That there are folk happy to cheat by ignoring requirements & content to play off a false h/cap. WHS can only do its best as in the end, it's up to players' honesty & it's clear that that is sadly lacking.

wow!! Nobody mentioned cheating. If you are going out for a fun laugh with no intention of handing in a card, that is fine. If you want to hand one in whether you concentrate ofr not, rock on. The bit you are missing is that handicap cheats are a totally seperate breed and they can cheat by handing in cards, manufacturing poor scores where they choose, or by not handing in cardds. You won't cure handicap cheats by making people submit cards that they should not have to!

 

[wjemather]

With all the statements you have made on here calling people cheats is prob right at the bottom


It is very much binary for the handicap police - it’s one way or no way

It’s why most prefer to use common sense and treat people like adults

Most of the people I know when they go on society days or charity days etc 9/10 they will put a card in through their own choice - just as loads of us did for H4H

That’s the good thing -it gives people the choice , they don’t need to be dictated to by people when going on what’s essentially a fun golf day out , if people want to put a card in then it’s their choice

Calling people cheats etc just shows how some are unable to think for themselves and I suspect for them are more fans of the rules than the sport.

Some of them need to understand why most of us play this game

Name-calling, insulting the volunteers who facilitate your competitions, and advocating that players should have a choice of when and where the rules apply to them (they don't), are not strong arguments for anything.

 

[wjemather]

Handicaps are important to some people. Mate of mine is off +3 and missed our club champs last year because his next score to drop off was a 6 under and he wanted to make sure that he got into the English Amateur. He wouldn't have been very impressed if he went on a fun day out and was forced to submit a card.

I'd hope no-one is forcing people to enter any competition on a fun day out.

 

[Oldbutwise]

I would encourage the captain on HIS away day to set a few 'local' rules such as allowing drops from OOB for 2 stroke penalty etc. That way there are no arguments - it's a fun day out as it should be!

 

[Leftitshort]

Name-calling, insulting the volunteers who facilitate your competitions, and advocating that players should have a choice of when and where the rules apply to them (they don't), are not strong arguments for anything.

Apart from the fact that Phil is a volunteer who facilitates competitions.

 

[Leftitshort]

I'd hope no-one is forcing people to enter any competition on a fun day out.

Have you read the OP?

 

[RichA]

I'm not having a go, and I'm genuinely enjoying the debate. But you've just given me another top line in terms of making excuses not to submit a score. "I'm going to look to make memories" . I think that tops my list so far

Before WHS, my mindset was definitely that of only submitting comp scores for handicap. I was handicap sec at my club, and maybe only had 4 or 5 supplementary scores a week, and these were from golfers who never played comps, so used it as a way to keep handicap up to date. So, I understand the mentality of not putting scores in for non competitions, as that is how I felt at one time. I'd make all the same arguments, mentality is different in comps than it is non-comps. But, it works differently for different golfers, some better in comps, some worse in comps.

When WHS came in, I started to submit GP scores. I probably did it more to test the howdidido and MyEG Apps, so I could identify bugs and inform members who also used them, rather than because I thought submitting GP scores was a good idea. However, as I continued to do it, I started to really like the idea, and enjoyed the fact that each round had an impact, and that my handicap would be as up to date as I can get it. My mentality and emotions might be different in certain events, but I'm still ultimately always trying to do well. I might not take GP rounds so seriously, but I've still shot many incredibly good GP scores. In fact, my best rounds and worst rounds are probably all GP scores, and ultimately including them makes no major difference to what my handicap would be.

So, although I now find people making excuses about not submitting scores "laughable", I too had that mindset several years ago. So, looking back, I find my view on that specific point at the time "laughable" as well. Hence, I'm not trying to be nasty to those with a different view, just saying what I think of that view now, even though I probably held it previously. I also feel like more and more golfers are slowly coming round to the idea of submitting scores, but it obviously takes a lot of time for many golfers to adapt to the idea of "change". Whereas it was accelerated for me, more out of necessity really.

Nuts that you think that's an excuse not to submit a score.
I only use my HI when I'm taking the golf seriously. I mostly play fun time golf with mates and don't bother scoring at all. If I card the scores when I'm titting about my HI will be huge. When I then enter a comp and take it seriously I'll have an unfair advantage that I'm not comfortable with.

Do you put pub quiz victories on your CV?
Does throwaway leisure time really have to go on our permanent records?

 

[wjemather]

Have you read the OP?

Nowhere does it say entry to the comp is compulsory, and an individual Stableford isn't going to get messed up by people opting-out.

 

[Swango1980]

I would encourage the captain on HIS away day to set a few 'local' rules such as allowing drops from OOB for 2 stroke penalty etc. That way there are no arguments - it's a fun day out as it should be!

There would be arguments though.

Because, many of those that are opposed to HAVING to submit scores have at least said that people SHOULD have a choice. So, if the Captain decides to play some dodgy rules to ensure it can't be used for handicap, then the people that want the choice to enter scores can't. Either that, or they have to play by different rules or format to everyone else in the "competition" that day.

So, I'm not sure this is a great solution.

I suppose Captain's Away Day could be changed to something like Ryder Cup Style Match Play, or Teams of 3 or 4, Texas Scramble or something. But, this is not relevant to the OP.

 

[Leftitshort]

I'd hope no-one is forcing people to enter any competition on a fun day out.

Depends on your definition of ‘expects’

 

[Swango1980]

Nuts that you think that's an excuse not to submit a score.
I only use my HI when I'm taking the golf seriously. I mostly play fun time golf with mates and don't bother scoring at all. If I card the scores when I'm titting about my HI will be huge. When I then enter a comp and take it seriously I'll have an unfair advantage that I'm not comfortable with.

Do you put pub quiz victories on your CV?
Does throwaway leisure time really have to go on our permanent records?

Pub quiz victories on my CV? Absolutely not, as that is a Team event, and Team events are unacceptable for qualifying my intelligence . Although there is a quiz master at my club who has been on Mastermind, The Chase, Eggheads, etc. so I suppose his pub quiz record may be used on his CV, bit more relevent.

All golf is my leisure time. I play in a Monthly Medal, I don't see that as business. It is golf, it is my hobby.

 

[wjemather]

Depends on your definition of ‘expects’

"H/cap Sec expects all [competition scores] to be returned."
Nothing about expecting everyone to enter the competition.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Name-calling, insulting the volunteers who facilitate your competitions, and advocating that players should have a choice of when and where the rules apply to them (they don't), are not strong arguments for anything.

Do you mean when someone who is a HC sec is calling people cheats ?

And there are many people on here that volunteer their services

And there are many people that have common sense , able to see the middle ground and treat people like adults - they have through over a decade of experience found that it’s the best way to get people engaged is to treat them like adults and have a choice in certain aspects. It amazing how by giving that choice allowed 87 out of 88 players to enter a score card for the last captains away day . Imagine that

 

[Swango1980]

Here is a potential idea, and taking people's comments at face value, would the following be a solution:

• Captain's Away Day is made a "qualifier". This satisfies the Rules of Handicapping, and presumably suits all those golfers who intend to go out that day, play their best and hopefully be in with a shout of the prizes.
• For those golfers who are not bothered about taking it seriously, and just want to play for the fun and the alcohol, they can opt out of the competition element of Captains Away Day. They can play by the Rules, or not. They can play hero shots when they want, or even pick up rather than putt out any time they choose. Their handicap remains unadjusted after the round, as there is no score to go on their record.

Surely the above fully satisfies both types of golfer, and everyone is happy? It also means if you have a golfer who happens to be on the verge of qualifying for the English Amateur Championship, and about to lose one of his best 8, he can still happily come along and have no fear of a score impacting his chances at qualification.

 

[Swango1980]

Do you mean when someone who is a HC sec is calling people cheats ?

And there are many people on here that volunteer their services

And there are many people that have common sense , able to see the middle ground and treat people like adults - they have through over a decade of experience found that it’s the best way to get people engaged is to treat them like adults and have a choice in certain aspects. It amazing how by giving that choice allowed 87 out of 88 players to enter a score card for the last captains away day . Imagine that

I'd wonder what the reason was for one person out of 88 not entering their score to be honest

 

[Grizzly]

Yeah I'd side with how seriously you individually take the event? Some may have a fun day out with booze etc, others may go with a competition mentality.

You cant be trying to make the best possible score if you're 8 deep can you? (overkill with 8 I know)

You're kidding, I play better eight deep!