Submitting scores on a Captain's Away Day

[Deleted member 35577]

Yet you are still here and commenting. Not that bored

I suspect the Poll is a bit flawed anyway. I think the title has been jumped on by anyone that has a real sensitive issue around submitting scores, and thus biased the vote in that direction. I suspect the vast majority of golfers don't care, are happy enough entering scores in competitions and just didn't have the interest in participating in this poll.

I think Liverpool highlighted this well, when he said 87 out of 88 players entered a score for his last Captains away day. Therefore 98.9% of golfers in that scenario were not worried about missing qualification to the English Amateur Championship, not worried about playing badly and getting a handicap increase, not worried about playing well and getting a reduction, not worried about what alcohol would do to their performance and were not worried it would be less fun. There was maybe only one golfer that day that might have used any of these excuses to not submit a score. Then again, they may have had a much more genuine excuse, like injury. No idea.

Interesting that you keep referring back to the highlighted point I made earlier in this thread. The guy in question is the exception to why people shouldn't be forced to submit cards. He is an elite amateur playing top level competitions. To the majority of club golfers the competitions they play have no entry criteria, it doesn't matter if their handicap is 10, 20 or 120. A weekly stableford is open to all and your best score dropping off the week before makes no difference. But to the small %age of golfers that play in high level events it becomes important. That is why a 'fun' competition SHOULD NOT be mandatory to return a card.

 

[clubchamp98]

There would be arguments though.

Because, many of those that are opposed to HAVING to submit scores have at least said that people SHOULD have a choice. So, if the Captain decides to play some dodgy rules to ensure it can't be used for handicap, then the people that want the choice to enter scores can't. Either that, or they have to play by different rules or format to everyone else in the "competition" that day.

So, I'm not sure this is a great solution.

I suppose Captain's Away Day could be changed to something like Ryder Cup Style Match Play, or Teams of 3 or 4, Texas Scramble or something. But, this is not relevant to the OP.

The ones who don’t want to submit a card = just have a putt on the nearest green.
The ones who do want to submit a card = don’t have a putt.

 

[2blue]

Yeah, so when Big Dave playing off 20 shoots 45 points and wins Captain's Away Day, everyone is delighted for him, as they're all having great fun and the drinks are flowing.

When they then all turn up to play the Monthly Medal the next day, Big Dave is still off 20. Now that the golfers are not in "fun mode", there is plenty of back chat like "Big Dave shot 45 points yesterday, and he is still blooming playing off 20 today, what a joke. Bandit"

My belief is, that if Big Dave shoots 45 points and gets cut from 20 to 18 or 19, everyone will still have an equal amount of fun on Captain's Away Day. And they will also all be highly satisfied the following day when Big Dave is playing of an updated handicap. Sounds like everyone is a winner.

But, you seem to be very selective in what rules you go along with. I've seen you make some very harsh assessments of people / organizations as soon as they don't follow the rules. On another thread, I think you were very clear about a rule being broken about practicing on the course before a round, even though many used "common sense" and felt it was one that shouldn't even really be punished as it is likely to make no material difference. But, at the end of the day, the rules are the rules (and I can't argue with that). But it seems like this argument is only worth being made if it suits your own opinion.

Absolutely this ^^^^^^ certainly a lot of 'dirty washing' coming out here & all exposed so easily.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting that you keep referring back to the highlighted point I made earlier in this thread. The guy in question is the exception to why people shouldn't be forced to submit cards. He is an elite amateur playing top level competitions. To the majority of club golfers the competitions they play have no entry criteria, it doesn't matter if their handicap is 10, 20 or 120. A weekly stableford is open to all and your best score dropping off the week before makes no difference. But to the small %age of golfers that play in high level events it becomes important. That is why a 'fun' competition SHOULD NOT be mandatory to return a card.

So, ignore the Rules of Handicapping, just in case one golfer happens to be on the brink of qualifying for the English Amateur Championship, and they there is a 40% chance they might be losing a top 8 score.

Or, to summarise, ignore the Rules of Handicapping as there is a 0.001% chance one such person would have attended, but decide against it due to those circumstances.

I guess it is a fair point to some. I'm not convinced. But, did you respond to the solution I suggested were he could attend, opt out of the competition, but still be there to have fun?

 

[Deleted member 35577]

But, did you respond to the solution I suggested were he could attend, opt out of the competition, but still be there to have fun?

I did because I replied No to the poll. Which is totally against what people like 2blue and wjemather are suggesting.

 

[2blue]

Well, we've learned one thing for certain. That there are folk happy to cheat by ignoring requirements & content to play off a false h/cap. WHS can only do its best as in the end, it's up to players' honesty & it's clear that that is sadly lacking.

Will it be better if I edit that to 'guilty of dubious behavior'?
When posting I'd had a few beers & whiskies so I thought you'd understand that I could then just do whatever I wanted. After all, it works on Away-days.

 

[Bratty]

Why so easily offended? I didn't name call or swear, I genuinely find it laughable, so that is the word I used. Had I said I find it funny, bizarre, remarkable, etc have been a more acceptable word to use?

If you think I'm offended, you're wrong. I'm tired.
I'm not offended, easily or otherwise. To suggest so is similar to using the word laughable. It can be interpreted by some as passive aggressive, demeaning or belittling. You're right you didn't name call or swear, but believing that's the only caveat for someone to be offended, suggests a lack of self-awareness.
Given this thread is now into double pages just shows how debate quickly turns into a back and forth of picking up on the smallest piece of another's view and using it as an argument to the contrary is just circulatory in the extreme. On both sides of the argument.
Debate is healthy, but the good thing about debate is the end. Which in most debates happens. Not so much debates on here. Which is fine for some and not for others. I'm with the others.

 

[clubchamp98]

So big Dave shoots his 45pts dosnt put his card in and wins the medal on Saturday. Members not happy.

But what of Little Dave who decided to put his cards in !
After 12 pints the night before he goes out and shoots 21 pts that goes on his best 20 but he’s losing his best score !
He gets a shot back and wins the medal on Saturday. Members not happy

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

If you think I'm offended, you're wrong. I'm tired.
I'm not offended, easily or otherwise. To suggest so is similar to using the word laughable. It can be interpreted by some as passive aggressive, demeaning or belittling. You're right you didn't name call or swear, but believing that's the only caveat for someone to be offended, suggests a lack of self-awareness.
Given this thread is now into double pages just shows how debate quickly turns into a back and forth of picking up on the smallest piece of another's view and using it as an argument to the contrary is just circulatory in the extreme. On both sides of the argument.
Debate is healthy, but the good thing about debate is the end. Which in most debates happens. Not so much debates on here. Which is fine for some and not for others. I'm with the others.

The problem seems to be that many people have given answers pro & con the OP. But a select few just can’t seem to look beyond their own ideals to see common sense. This debate becomes impossible.

 

[Swango1980]

So big Dave shoots his 45pts dosnt put his card in and wins the medal on Saturday. Members not happy.

But what of Little Dave who decided to put his cards in !
After 12 pints the night before he goes out and shoots 21 pts that goes on his best 20 but he’s losing his best score !
He gets a shot back and wins the medal on Saturday. Members not happy

Members are fine. On the off chance little Dave loses a top 8 round AND his handicap increases, the same would have happened had he played an average to poor round in a club competition anyway.

Little Dave was on a brink of a handicap increase anyway, so why on earth would anyone kick off? Furthermore, if it wasn't a qualifier and Little Dave was allowed, by choice, to put a GP score in, then members might just kick off (if you think they are so inclined). They might see it as him deciding to put that score in intentionally to get an increase, when he didn't have to.

So, now both Big Dave AND Little Dave are getting harassed by members. Big Dave for shooting 45 points,not putting in a card and no cut. Little Dave for playing rubbish, choosing to put in his card and getting an increase.

A problem all caused by the stupid decision to play a handicap competition and decide to ignore the Rules of Handicapping.

But, at least Captain's Day was immense. A day even Grealish would have loved to be part of

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

I’m interested as to why people are so obsessed with other people’s handicaps.

 

[Deleted member 35577]

It would be a lot easier and less controversial if only scores from official club/open competitions counted towards handicap.

 

[clubchamp98]

Members are fine. On the off chance little Dave loses a top 8 round AND his handicap increases, the same would have happened had he played an average to poor round in a club competition anyway.

Little Dave was on a brink of a handicap increase anyway, so why on earth would anyone kick off? Furthermore, if it wasn't a qualifier and Little Dave was allowed, by choice, to put a GP score in, then members might just kick off (if you think they are so inclined). They might see it as him deciding to put that score in intentionally to get an increase, when he didn't have to.

So, now both Big Dave AND Little Dave are getting harassed by members. Big Dave for shooting 45 points,not putting in a card and no cut. Little Dave for playing rubbish, choosing to put in his card and getting an increase.

A problem all caused by the stupid decision to play a handicap competition and decide to ignore the Rules of Handicapping.

But, at least Captain's Day was immense. A day even Grealish would have loved to be part of

Yes but little Dave wouldn't have won the medal on Saturday cpo!
There is no real correct answer imo.

Genuine question ,Can anybody just declare they are organising an official comp and invite their mates on an away day.
Then insist they all put cards in after a night of “ fun” on the ale.

He might loose 75% of his mates according to this pole.

 

[Swango1980]

I’m interested as to why people are so obsessed with other people’s handicaps.

You could ask that question on pretty much any of the hundreds of threads on Golf Monthly related to handicaps.

 

[IanM]

Hilarious thread this. We know what position all the inmates (inc me) will take, so calm down and smile.

If the captain says this isn't a qualifying competition, so be it. If the County Union decide to go round and burn his house down, and concrete over the golf course, well, rules is rules!

Life's too short!

 

[Deleted member 35577]

Hilarious thread this. We know what position all the inmates (inc me) will take, so calm down and smile.

If the captain says this isn't a qualifying competition, so be it. If the County Union decide to go round and burn his house down, and concrete over the golf course, well, rules is rules!

Life's too short!

I don't read this forum to see everyone in agreement and being all nicey nicey

 

[IanM]

I don't read this forum to see everyone in agreement and being all nicey nicey

You're completely wrong and a bad person. I bet you're nasty to wee animals too!!

 

[Deleted member 35577]

You're completely wrong and a bad person. I bet you're nasty to wee animals too!!

Actually you are wrong. I like small animals. I don't like you lot

 

[wjemather]

Hilarious thread this. We know what position all the inmates (inc me) will take, so calm down and smile.

If the captain says this isn't a qualifying competition, so be it. If the County Union decide to go round and burn his house down, and concrete over the golf course, well, rules is rules!

Life's too short!

There's an awful lot of deference to "what captain says" on here, when it's a position that holds no authority on rules matters.

 

[Deleted member 35577]

There's an awful lot of deference to "what captain says" on here, when it's a position that holds no authority on rules matters.

I'm pretty sure he has authority on the format of his away day though.