Slope ratings

Taken me a bit to understand that the course SR doesn't tell us how difficult a course is - just tells us how much harder a course is for the 18-20 h/capper than it is for the scratch player. And so a higher SR tells me that golfers gets additional shots to add to their Handicap Index to get their Course Handicap 'quicker' as HI increases. Doesn't actually mean that the course is difficult. Just that it gets relatively harder for players as handicap increases.

Easy example I use is imagining a (daft) course of 18 short par 4s - of say 300yds - but all of which have something like 230yd carry over water from the tee and the layup leaves say 175yds to green. The scratch golfer may well drive many greens - and could blast the course. For him the course is a dawdle. But as handicap goes up the likelihood of a player taking on every tee shot reduces - and more lay ups will be played - and there will be handicap - probably in low teens when a player with such handicap decides that he can't carry every water and starts laying up on many holes. You'd soon get to the player off mid-high teens h/cap who lays up on every hole - leaving him 175yd shots for every second - now that's tough. Such a course would have a Low Course Rating (difficulty) and a High Slope Rating. The higher HI player playing a scratch player needs the shots to be able to compete and the High Slope Rating gives him them.

Well that's how I understand it.
 
Hendy said:
Just been having a look at some these slope ratings for my home course and the ones in the surrounding area.

Some interesting ratings. As in one's higher than i was thinking they would be and ones lower than I was thinking they would be.

Anyways just wondering do you guys think your course rating is fair or is it to high/low?

My home course is 124.

https://ncrdb.usga.org/
Click to expand...
Why do you say one is higher than you expected and one lower?
What does 124 tell you about your course?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Taken me a bit to understand that the course SR doesn't tell us how difficult a course is - just tells us how much harder a course is for the 18-20 h/capper than it is for the scratch player. And so a higher SR tells me that golfers gets additional shots to add to their Handicap Index to get their Course Handicap 'quicker' as HI increases. Doesn't actually mean that the course is difficult. Just that it gets relatively harder for players as handicap increases.

Easy example I use is imagining a (daft) course of 18 short par 4s - of say 300yds - but all of which have something like 230yd carry over water from the tee and the layup leaves say 175yds to green. The scratch golfer may well drive many greens - and could blast the course. For him the course is a dawdle. But as handicap goes up the likelihood of a player taking on every tee shot reduces - and more lay ups will be played - and there will be handicap - probably in low teens when a player with such handicap decides that he can't carry every water and starts laying up on many holes. You'd soon get to the player off mid-high teens h/cap who lays up on every hole - leaving him 175yd shots for every second - now that's tough. Such a course would have a Low Course Rating (difficulty) and a High Slope Rating. The higher HI player playing a scratch player needs the shots to be able to compete and the High Slope Rating gives him them.

Well that's how I understand it.
Click to expand...

You are not wrong.
 
All the comments posted so far show the SR increases as the tees get further back. This is logical, as the course gets longer it becomes proportionately harder for the bogey golfer, whereas a scratch player has the length to handle this.

However, SR for my course is 128 off the whites and 130 off the yellows. I scratched my head looking at this. I can only assume that this is because playing off the yellows makes the course a little bit easier for a bogey golfer, but a lot easier for a scratch golfer?
 
sunshine said:
All the comments posted so far show the SR increases as the tees get further back. This is logical, as the course gets longer it becomes proportionately harder for the bogey golfer, whereas a scratch player has the length to handle this.

However, SR for my course is 128 off the whites and 130 off the yellows. I scratched my head looking at this. I can only assume that this is because playing off the yellows makes the course a little bit easier for a bogey golfer, but a lot easier for a scratch golfer?
Click to expand...

Probably. As stated above, slope is NOT a measure of difficulty per se, rather the relative difficulty for the 20 hcap compared to the scratch.
 
Ah so SR is a gauge for enjoyment for your average high handicap... in basic terms, and meaningless to any one with a modicum of length and control.
 
Not that many would try it but they have rated all tees for men and women. the extreme ratings are:
Women : Course Rating/Slope: 83.2/148 and there’s a 82.3/150
Highest rating for men is a 76.4/138

Think I’ll pass on those tees :eek:
 
Siolag said:
No matches for my club on that. Unless I’m doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
Could be a "Scottish" thing as our club isn't on there are neither are a number of other well-known courses up here. Maybe hasn't been updated since Scottish courses were rated or something similar.
 
rulefan said:
Why do you say one is higher than you expected and one lower?
What does 124 tell you about your course?
Click to expand...


Well in am just looking at few courses in my area.

Example my current club is 124 on the data base off whites

My old course is 112 on the data base off white.

I know from playing both my new club is a harder test it's much longer as one example.

So the science behind it seems to be correct. As normally the CSS is 38 on my old course and 35/36 on my new course.

Anyways just noticed few others maybe 10/20 of a difference and it in seems to be harder and less difficult than my current one which i find interesting. (Imo)

I know it takes in account your handicap etc. This is simply just a little quick look at some of the courses I have played and my on view on which is harder and easier.

It's going to take a bit of getting onto all this.. but I know my self most of the clubs in my area will only use two ratings one for bad weather days and one for good weather days. Be very surprised if I see it changed on a daily basis
 
sunshine said:
All the comments posted so far show the SR increases as the tees get further back. This is logical, as the course gets longer it becomes proportionately harder for the bogey golfer, whereas a scratch player has the length to handle this.

However, SR for my course is 128 off the whites and 130 off the yellows. I scratched my head looking at this. I can only assume that this is because playing off the yellows makes the course a little bit easier for a bogey golfer, but a lot easier for a scratch golfer?
Click to expand...
May be something like - off your yellows hazards come into play off the tee for the bogey player that are not in play for him off the whites. Such hazards might be located for the scratch player off the whites. Sometimes also there can be natural features that come into play for the bogey player off the yellows not in play off the whites. For example a water feature, stream or ditch that forces the bogey player to lay up off the yellows that the scratch player isn't in the slightest bit bothered about.
 
Hendy said:
Well in am just looking at few courses in my area.

Example my current club is 124 on the data base off whites

My old course is 112 on the data base off white.

I know from playing both my new club is a harder test it's much longer as one example.

So the science behind it seems to be correct. As normally the CSS is 38 on my old course and 35/36 on my new course.

Anyways just noticed few others maybe 10/20 of a difference and it in seems to be harder and less difficult than my current one which i find interesting. (Imo)

I know it takes in account your handicap etc. This is simply just a little quick look at some of the courses I have played and my on view on which is harder and easier.

It's going to take a bit of getting onto all this.. but I know my self most of the clubs in my area will only use two ratings one for bad weather days and one for good weather days. Be very surprised if I see it changed on a daily basis
Click to expand...
Remember - SR is not an indicator of absolute difficulty - it is an indicator of relative difficulty - bogey player relative to scratch player playing the same course from the same tees. And that relative difficulty might not be anything to do with length.
 
Hendy said:
So the science behind it seems to be correct. As normally the CSS is 38 on my old course and 35/36 on my new course.
Click to expand...

Where did you get those numbers from? SSS (not CSS) is normally between about 65 and 75.

I know my self most of the clubs in my area will only use two ratings one for bad weather days and one for good weather days. Be very surprised if I see it changed on a daily basis
Click to expand...
Clubs can't simply change ratings to suit the weather. Or do you mean change tees?

All very confused
 
Perhaps someone could clarify this for me.

The new WHS handicap is I understand the average of your best 8 scores from your last 20 qualifiers. Based I believe on the differential between your scores and the relevant SSS/CSS.

So my new WHS handicap index will be calculated off what is effectively the Course Rating. However as a handicap golfer going forward I then get to calculate my daily playing handicap by multiplying my allocated handicap index by the slope rating for the course / tees I am playing and then dividing it by 113. Is this the correct calculation to make?

If so, what is causing me some confusion is that having earned a handicap of lets say 10.0 for ease of calculation based on a SSS of 72, the first time I play my home course (where I have played all my 20 previous qualifiers) when the WHS applies and which has a slope of 134 means I would play off 11.86 (rounded to 12).

So I've legitimately earned 10 but get 12 shots - am I missing something?

Thanks in anticipation
 
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