Segregation in Golf Clubs

[jim8flog]

I am not a fan of drawn comps, so certainly not into forcing anyone or as you say the 70 years old to play with the 20 year old. Play in your own groups if you wish to. Just that the comp or tee should be available for all to play in.


Hopefully that's clearer.

No that is not any clearer because you are still suggesting that the 70 year old should compete against the 20 year old just with a different tee time.

Within our club there are lots of comps where the 70 year old can enter and compete with the 20 old if they wish to but there is one comp once a fortnight where the 20 year old cannot enter and compete with the 70 year old. The fortnightly comp is oversubscribed as it is (over 100 entries most comps) and the only way to extend it would be to take away all the tee times reserved for players not wishing to play in the comp.

 

[patricks148]

what about Committee representation at ours we have 750 male members and 200 ladies the committee is 8 members 2 are women they moan they are under represented and wanted another woman on the Com

all the funds collected from the ladies section go into there own bank account and is spent by them on them, fee's from men go to run the club

 

[jim8flog]

what about Committee representation at ours we have 750 male members and 200 ladies the committee is 8 members 2 are women they moan they are under represented and wanted another woman on the Com

all the funds collected from the ladies section go into there own bank account and is spent by them on them, fee's from men go to run the club

Our seniors have their own accounts and choose what to do with the surplus. This is normally spent on projects authorised by the main committee and we have lots of 'structures' around the course that would never have been built if it was not for the Seniors.

 

[JGolfer]

Played the other day with my PP got told by pro shop was a ladies comp on so we would have to go out after them. No issues no rush. Went to first tee. Instantly approached by two woman who tell us the same thing we say its fine no rush. Then we get told we have to wait 30 minutes after their last group goes off before we can tee off. We mention it's not what the pro shop advised but if that's what they want we have no issues. Wish them good luck and have a good round.

Proceed to watch all the match play pairs fail to drive the first fairway all end up in the rough short ( it's a 170 carry to the fairway). It's fine no worries. We give the last pair a 30 minute head start. By the 4th hole we are sat waiting.

Get told me need to slow down. Mention we aren't playing particularly fast but we can't really go any slower. Get moaned at.

Fast forward to 6th hole it's a 260 yard uphill slight dogleg but wind is helping. I decided go lay up off the tee with hybrid rather than go for it with driver. Find the fairway as we head out to our balls we see the pair infront walking towards us. I get an absolute bollocking. I mention I layed up off the tee. They ignore me and continue to go at it.

Now I'm not exactly sure what their issue was up until this point. We had played slow, not asked to be let through, even tried to chat at the tee box while they either waited or after a shot complimenting them. Even waited half an hour after they teed off before we went.


Now granted after this I decided to be an ass back and decided to show them just how slow they are. Waited till they where on their third shots on the next hole. And smacked by driver right over their heads 264. 20 yards short of the green. Suffice to say this carried on the rest of the round.

I tried to be nice, I wasn't in a rush but their attitude towards me was absolutely shocking. Was it because I'm in my 20s? Was it because I'm a male? Who knows but never ever again. Been behind men's comps and the difference was night and day. Been behind senior comps which sometimes get some flak for being slow absolute joy. Nice little banter chit chat no issues. Can only assume based on my experiences woman like to stick to their own who knows why I feel it alienates younger females who are trying to get into the game if they see a male/female divide

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Now granted after this I decided to be an ass back and decided to show them just how slow they are. Waited till they where on their third shots on the next hole. And smacked by driver right over their heads 264. 20 yards short of the green. Suffice to say this carried on the rest of the round.

Oh lordy

 

[patricks148]

Our seniors have their own accounts and choose what to do with the surplus. This is normally spent on projects authorised by the main committee and we have lots of 'structures' around the course that would never have been built if it was not for the Seniors.

all well and good, but they don't its spent on ladies Jollies not on the course as ours is, some 20 or so even went to the US to play in some comp all paid for from the Ladies section IE membership fee's

 

[Slab]

Oh lordy

That's just what I thought, a 260 par 4 followed by a 284 par 4 !

 

[Wolf]

.
Now granted after this I decided to be an ass back and decided to show them just how slow they are. Waited till they where on their third shots on the next hole. And smacked by driver right over their heads 264. 20 yards short of the green. Suffice to say this carried on the rest of the round.

Your post was going so well until this point.... So to show them how slow they were you decided to put them in danger by hitting your tee shot over their heads...

Says more about you than the ladies.. Yes they were slow but you were made aware by the pro and them before you teed off they were in a comp this wouldn't be a quick round. Whether they annoyed you or not is no excuse for your actions and rightly so I hope they make a complaint.

 

[JGolfer]

Your post was going so well until this point.... So to show them how slow they were you decided to put them in danger by hitting your tee shot over their heads...

Says more about you than the ladies.. Yes they were slow but you were made aware by the pro and them before you teed off they were in a comp this wouldn't be a quick round. Whether they annoyed you or not is no excuse for your actions and rightly so I hope they make a complaint.

I had no issues waiting. But I lost it when they walked back from the green on the 6th to complain about my lay up tee shot. It was 35-40 yards short of the green. There was 0 reason for them to come back and complain. So I gave them something to complain about. It was parade day in Liverpool so I was glad for them to take aslong as they wanted. Meant I got to avoid it. But don't walk back 40 yards to complain that I laid up.

 

[JGolfer]

That's just what I thought, a 260 par 4 followed by a 284 par 4 !

5th 6th 7th 11th and 13th are all very short par 4s. 5th is downhill blind tee shot. 6th slight dogleg. 7th rewards those who carry the trees with bunker around 250 protecting aggressive shots. 11th well there isn't really any danger so petty easy. And the 13th is downhill but if you miss left you can't make the green as trees + bunkers all around.

It's good because they're good scoring holes. But then again there is some 200+ par 3s

 

[Capella]

Now granted after this I decided to be an ass back and decided to show them just how slow they are. Waited till they where on their third shots on the next hole. And smacked by driver right over their heads 264. 20 yards short of the green. Suffice to say this carried on the rest of the round.

After that, you would not need to worry about slow play on our course ever again, ladies day or no ladies day. That would have been the last round you played there. And since golf clubs talk to each other, I doubt you would be much welcome in any of the surrounding clubs either. That's just a total no go. (And attitudes like that might be one of the reasons that some female players are reluctant to play with men or even have them around the course at the same time).

 

[JGolfer]

After that, you would not need to worry about slow play on our course ever again, ladies day or no ladies day. That would have been the last round you played there. And since golf clubs talk to each other, I doubt you would be much welcome in any of the surrounding clubs either. That's just a total no go. (And attitudes like that might be one of the reasons that some female players are reluctant to play with men or even have them around the course at the same time).

If you read my post you would have realised slow play wasn't the issue. They bollocked me for taking a tee shot that was a lay up accusing me of not respecting their tournament, of rushing them of making them feel like they wernt welcome saying I have an attitude and so forth. Before that point I has been nothing but respectful. Waiting without issue. One of them had never played the course so I had told her where is best to miss it on holes she was playing. Had tried to make chit chat been nothing but nice.

So yes on that hole I decided to retaliate. In hindsight was it the best choice? No but I was annoyed and to prove a point I decided to do that.

 

[Wolf]

I had no issues waiting. But I lost it when they walked back from the green on the 6th to complain about my lay up tee shot. It was 35-40 yards short of the green. There was 0 reason for them to come back and complain. So I gave them something to complain about. It was parade day in Liverpool so I was glad for them to take aslong as they wanted. Meant I got to avoid it. But don't walk back 40 yards to complain that I laid up.

So your answer to a lady complaining to you is to fire a projectile travelling at high speeds directly over their heads, had it hit them could have caused at best a minor injury or at worst something life changing and you're the one who feels aggrieved...

It's also attitudes like yours in this instance that are perhaps helping make the divides bigger rather than smaller....

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Jordan, there is no point you trying to defend your actions. There are some things you just DO NOT do on a golf course and hitting balls directly at someone is one of them. Your actions were both stupid and dangerous.

 

[duncan mackie]

So yes on that hole I decided to retaliate. In hindsight was it the best choice? No but I was annoyed and to prove a point I decided to do that.

And if you read other posts this is what is unacceptable; completely unacceptable. Hindsight not required.

I would hope that you would be out of the door at most clubs.

Whether the other parties were wrong is irrelevant.

 

[clubchamp98]

If you read my post you would have realised slow play wasn't the issue. They bollocked me for taking a tee shot that was a lay up accusing me of not respecting their tournament, of rushing them of making them feel like they wernt welcome saying I have an attitude and so forth. Before that point I has been nothing but respectful. Waiting without issue. One of them had never played the course so I had told her where is best to miss it on holes she was playing. Had tried to make chit chat been nothing but nice.

So yes on that hole I decided to retaliate. In hindsight was it the best choice? No but I was annoyed and to prove a point I decided to do that.

You had me agreeing with you until you put them in danger.
But a lay up does make a noise when landing and maybe you should have just waited ,as you were not going anywhere in a hurry.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

No that is not any clearer because you are still suggesting that the 70 year old should compete against the 20 year old just with a different tee time.

Within our club there are lots of comps where the 70 year old can enter and compete with the 20 old if they wish to but there is one comp once a fortnight where the 20 year old cannot enter and compete with the 70 year old. The fortnightly comp is oversubscribed as it is (over 100 entries most comps) and the only way to extend it would be to take away all the tee times reserved for players not wishing to play in the comp.

I understand what you are saying, why not just allow all people enter than fortnightly comp and allow anyone of any age or sex, enter provided they play on that day, rather than block out for 100 entries and some people not being able to play in the comp.

Why does the 70 year old not want to play in the same comp as the 20 year old ? It is that segregation I just do not understand, as to me the solutions are so simple, ie. open it to all and have all tee times on the day available for the comp and make it optional. Its probably because I see us all the same just a handicap golfer but must be missing something as most golf clubs are still section based?

Don't like blocking out the tee times and/or comps for a 'section' of the members, at the expense of other members. One club I joined works on the competition runs all day(still separate sections tho), within the same tee time group you have the choice to play or not play in a competition. All works quite well.

Find it interesting how clubs have evolved differently over time and why some people think it is okay and so on. I know I just accept it but hope to understand it a bit more and the reasons why!

 

[Slab]

5th 6th 7th 11th and 13th are all very short par 4s. 5th is downhill blind tee shot. 6th slight dogleg. 7th rewards those who carry the trees with bunker around 250 protecting aggressive shots. 11th well there isn't really any danger so petty easy. And the 13th is downhill but if you miss left you can't make the green as trees + bunkers all around.

It's good because they're good scoring holes. But then again there is some 200+ par 3s

Tough to tell from the written description but reads like a disaster course for any steady pace or even flow with those choke points so close together; but as has been pointed out, smacking the ball over them.... gonnae no dae that!

 

[GB72]

I do find the whole segregation at clubs issue an interesting one. We now have far more mixed comps at weekends and it is good to see that quite a few ladies enter. Not an issue but it is interesting that most seem to sign up to go out as a block rather than be scattered amongst the other entrants.

That said, I can very much appreciate the issue of positive discrimination for want of a better term. Many competitions that were traditionally men’s events have become mixed but there has been no move in the other direction with women’s competitions or seniors competitions at both weekends and on week days remaining very much as that. Perhaps it is time to set up a ‘middle aged’ section at the club and demand similar exclusive events and use of the course.

Admittedly it was a ladies open competition but the last one of those had members appointed to play behind the last group and ensure that nobody after got too close to them, basically waiting on every tee for the last group to clear the hole before teeing off themselves. Not sure if this is normal or not as it is the first time that I had experienced it.

The whole, ladies day/seniors day thing does frustrate. As a seven day member, any member should be free to play at any time. If any group wants to turn up on mass to play together then so be it but it is an anathema that the club has no tee booking system for anyone except these 2 groups (oh and don’t get me started on the ‘roll ups’ that are invitation only).

Talking to my mum about the club that she plays at and found it interesting that the ladies section do not even run their comps through the pro shop with vouchers etc as prizes (this benefits the club). They have their own prize pool and dish out M&S vouchers to winners so the pro shop loses out on that revenue.

Perhaps it would also be prudent to look at the wider financial impact on a club. If your club accepts societies etc, are they prevented from booking in on ladies day or seniors day. That is a potential loss of income to the club.

I think many of these ‘traditions’ hark back to the days when clubs were very much a male orientated set up, often with women not being allowed to play at weekends. That needs to change but it needs change from both sides. It is all well and good making mens’ comps inclusive but that needs to go both ways. There needs to be one class of person at a club, a member, and that member is entitled to play at any time in any competition. That should apply to all competitions including mens’, ladies and seniors. After all, is it not the idea of a handicap system that everyone should be able to play together on an even playing field.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I understand what you are saying, why not just allow all people enter than fortnightly comp and allow anyone of any age or sex, enter provided they play on that day, rather than block out for 100 entries and some people not being able to play in the comp.

Why does the 70 year old not want to play in the same comp as the 20 year old ? It is that segregation I just do not understand, as to me the solutions are so simple, ie. open it to all and have all tee times on the day available for the comp and make it optional. Its probably because I see us all the same just a handicap golfer but must be missing something as most golf clubs are still section based?

Don't like blocking out the tee times and/or comps for a 'section' of the members, at the expense of other members. One club I joined works on the competition runs all day(still separate sections tho), within the same tee time group you have the choice to play or not play in a competition. All works quite well.

Find it interesting how clubs have evolved differently over time and why some people think it is okay and so on. I know I just accept it but hope to understand it a bit more and the reasons why!

At my club we have a combination of both 'section' competitions and general ones. I enjoy playing with people who have similar interests to me and enjoying their company on the course. We have many excellent juniors including a couple of girls who are around 13-14 years old. Sadly in this day and age it is probably not appropriate if I was to go out and play as a 2 ball with one of them. There are no issues at my club running separate competitions, we have 'club' medals and stablefords open to all members as well. It works, there is no need to change it.