Roll Ups : Entitled or Appreciative ?

[Mandofred]

Why can't you perhaps see the point of view that the club are doing was is best for THEIR members, rather than what your own personal opinion is?

Not everyone had a consistent groups of mates to play with, or mates may be unavailable lots of weeks. A roll up gives ALL golfers an opportunity to play, without worrying about organising people to play with.

If these roll ups were empty, then fair enough. Stop them or restrict them so others can book individual tee slots.

But, if they are popular, then maybe they are working well?

Bingo.

Again (and again)....rollups don't stop people from playing golf. Rollups can stop people from playing with just their mates. It isn't right....it isn't wrong. The people who don't like rollups....well....want them to go away. The people who do like rollups want them to stay. Same with flag in/out to me.....I like it in, but those that like it out I don't consider to be wrong.....they just like the flag out. Compromise.

 

[backwoodsman]

Our swindle is open to anyone. It doesn't restrict anyone from playing at a given point in time. It's very popular particularly with new members, and indeed, many younger members (although, as in all golf, young is a relative term).. Its very good for people who haven't a regular pairing, people who happen to be temporarily short of a pairing, and people who want to socialise across a wide spectrum of membership. If you want to play between X and Y times on a sunday morning, you book into the swindle. The only difference is that you'll be in a randomly drawn group rather than choosing your own grouping. If you dont want to play at those times, or if you want to play in a non-random group, then you book a different time. There's no clique, no guaranteed right to play in it, and no absolute 'membership' of it - it's advertised club-wide every week and is first-come-first-served. Just over a quarter of the playing membership participated at some stage over the course of last summer. It's usually full, and if not, the vacant slots are available to general booking. I'd hazard a guess and say that those who haven't participated, havent done so because its not on at a time that suits them.

It suits our club and we find it an egalitarian means of playing golf. It's where nearly all new members are directed, and where people find the seeds of new friendships.

 

[Mandofred]

Our swindle is open to anyone. It doesn't restrict anyone from playing at a given point in time. It's very popular particularly with new members, and indeed, many younger members (although, as in all golf, young is a relative term).. Its very good for people who haven't a regular pairing, people who happen to be temporarily short of a pairing, and people who want to socialise across a wide spectrum of membership. If you want to play between X and Y times on a sunday morning, you book into the swindle. The only difference is that you'll be in a randomly drawn group rather than choosing your own grouping. If you dont want to play at those times, or if you want to play in a non-random group, then you book a different time. There's no clique, no guaranteed right to play in it, and no absolute 'membership' of it - it's advertised club-wide every week and is first-come-first-served. Just over a quarter of the playing membership participated at some stage over the course of last summer. It's usually full, and if not, the vacant slots are available to general booking. I'd hazard a guess and say that those who haven't participated, havent done so because its not on at a time that suits them.

It suits our club and we find it an egalitarian means of playing golf. It's where nearly all new members are directed, and where people find the seeds of new friendships.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Bingo.

Again (and again)....rollups don't stop people from playing golf. Rollups can stop people from playing with just their mates. It isn't right....it isn't wrong. The people who don't like rollups....well....want them to go away. The people who do like rollups want them to stay. Same with flag in/out to me.....I like it in, but those that like it out I don't consider to be wrong.....they just like the flag out. Compromise.

What’s the compromise that a roll up is doing

Seems to be there is none as they get those preferential tee times every week

Do they take alernate weeks - one week roll up one week open to all tee times

And a question to anyone with rolls ups - do they pay the club anything extra to get the tee time booked

 

[PJ87]

Our swindle is open to anyone. It doesn't restrict anyone from playing at a given point in time. It's very popular particularly with new members, and indeed, many younger members (although, as in all golf, young is a relative term).. Its very good for people who haven't a regular pairing, people who happen to be temporarily short of a pairing, and people who want to socialise across a wide spectrum of membership. If you want to play between X and Y times on a sunday morning, you book into the swindle. The only difference is that you'll be in a randomly drawn group rather than choosing your own grouping. If you dont want to play at those times, or if you want to play in a non-random group, then you book a different time. There's no clique, no guaranteed right to play in it, and no absolute 'membership' of it - it's advertised club-wide every week and is first-come-first-served. Just over a quarter of the playing membership participated at some stage over the course of last summer. It's usually full, and if not, the vacant slots are available to general booking. I'd hazard a guess and say that those who haven't participated, havent done so because its not on at a time that suits them.

It suits our club and we find it an egalitarian means of playing golf. It's where nearly all new members are directed, and where people find the seeds of new friendships.

Similar story at ours altho you don't have to be in the swindle to play times

I'm not in the weekend one because I'm only a midweek member however the midweek one plays weds and Fridays. One day I was at a loss for a game and asked someone I know he invited me to the swindle, after that round I was added to the WhatsApp group and night before you simple thumbs up or down if your coming next morning. Balls in hat and off we go

Shame they don't play Monday's aswell that would be perfect

 

[Swango1980]

What’s the compromise that a roll up is doing

Seems to be there is none as they get those preferential tee times every week

Do they take alernate weeks - one week roll up one week open to all tee times

And a question to anyone with rolls ups - do they pay the club anything extra to get the tee time booked

Not is roll ups at clubs I have ever played

Charging members to play on their own course would seem harsh

 

[Mandofred]

What’s the compromise that a roll up is doing

Seems to be there is none as they get those preferential tee times every week

Do they take alernate weeks - one week roll up one week open to all tee times

And a question to anyone with rolls ups - do they pay the club anything extra to get the tee time booked

You keep looking at things the most negative way.

Compromise means BOTH sides should make changes. All kinds of ways of doing this. Like you said, you could do every other week.....neither view would like that much and still complain. You could move the rollup back an hour or so and keep it every week in the same place so everybody knows it's there.

That I know of, no payment to the club.....but why should there be? Do the ladies pay fees for their mornings?

You think the "right way" is to have open booking for everybody, I get that. I can understand that. That isn't the way everybody wants to play though. Some want it to be completely open, some like the large rollup groups. Again I say.....compromise. If it is a big issue with some people, try to find a way to make both views as happy as possible. The rollup people may have to move their time back an hour or so....the fastest finger people may just have to accept that as being good enough.

In a completely fastest fingers get the tee times view..... there shouldn't be any comps, or visiting groups, or ladies day etc etc, because if there are then I can't book at the time I want. What if I want to play on a Saturday morning but there is a medal?....I may not want to pay money and play in a medal....is that fair?....some friends and myself may just want to go out for knockaround but we can't.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You keep looking at things the most negative way.

Compromise means BOTH sides should make changes. All kinds of ways of doing this. Like you said, you could do every other week.....neither view would like that much and still complain. You could move the rollup back an hour or so and keep it every week in the same place so everybody knows it's there.

That I know of, no payment to the club.....but why should there be? Do the ladies pay fees for their mornings?

You think the "right way" is to have open booking for everybody, I get that. I can understand that. That isn't the way everybody wants to play though. Some want it to be completely open, some like the large rollup groups. Again I say.....compromise. If it is a big issue with some people, try to find a way to make both views as happy as possible. The rollup people may have to move their time back an hour or so....the fastest finger people may just have to accept that as being good enough.

In a completely fastest fingers get the tee times view..... there shouldn't be any comps, or visiting groups, or ladies day etc etc, because if there are then I can't book at the time I want. What if I want to play on a Saturday morning but there is a medal?....I may not want to pay money and play in a medal....is that fair?....some friends and myself may just want to go out for knockaround but we can't.

This. We have a very popular Saturday roll up - popular for all the good reasons previously identified, esp with new members and those not having a small group of best buddies.

It was set up by a group of members who were turning up late morning…which was a relatively quiet time. Then Covid came and booking system introduced. Club allocated us ten late morning tee times (often required as we are completely open to all) - when numbers were known the club released tee times not required. Plus we were able to book into the rollup until the Thursday evening.

Club has been telling us last couple of months (actually the last year) that they have been under a lot of pressure from other members wanting to play Sat am but not in the roll up - plus releasing a few times Thursday evening was too late for them. We have compromised. We have had our number of tee times reduced to seven and pushed back 1/2hr - have to book into it the same seven days in advance as others booking a tee time. If we think we will need more tee times we have to be faster fingers first booking tee times adjacent to our seven.

The compromise has been difficult for many in the rollup, many of very long standing membership and ‘true’ club members who use the clubhouse and facilities in a ‘traditional’ way, and there is much resentment that the value the rollup provides to the club is not being respected - and that the club is bending to noise from small bunches of new or relatively new members who want to play with their one or two also new mates, and who are generally perceived as ‘car park’ members. Plus with our time slot pushed back the last tee times are getting too late for some of us.

But there you go. The rollup has recognised that changes were probably required (we still haven’t seen any evidence of it even though we had a club survey recently) especially over the winter months; that our club membership is full, and that we are, after all, a Saturday rollup. Tee times in what was the quiet Saturday time that the rollup used are now required by others. So be it.

 

[KenL]

Well sat and Sunday are peak days for those working and to then block peak times on those days wouldn’t seem great

Agree 100%.

 

[Mandofred]

Agree 100%.

Yet...it doesn't "block" those players from playing. This keeps coming up.....it doesn't block players from playing. It just blocks them from playing the way THEY want to play over the way the others want to play....why?

 

[KenL]

Yet...it doesn't "block" those players from playing. This keeps coming up.....it doesn't block players from playing. It just blocks them from playing the way THEY want to play over the way the others want to play....why?

If a group of like minded people want to grab times and play their swindle (whatever that is) that is fine. But to effectively close the course for part of the weekend for those who don’t want to take part is wrong. But then, that’s just my opinion.

 

[Backache]

Tee times are a limited resource .
Every use of a tee blocks someone else from using it.
If a tee time is booked it deprives players who don't have a regular group and enjoy playing in a roll up from playing at that time.
Competition Tee times deprive non competitors from playing.
Providing roll up reservations are genuinely open and don't overwhelm the slots available by having say two hours at a time devoted to them . I don't see why they should not be part of a clubs tee useage.

 

[Burnsey]

I'm fairly new to club life, but don't get the angst.

I enjoy the winter comp, which blocks four tee times from first light on Saturdays. If I don't play the comp, I can go afterwards.

I can't play at certain times on comp days, so just work around it.

Does an hour worth of blocked out times once a week really change peoples lives that much?

 

[Mandofred]

If a group of like minded people want to grab times and play their swindle (whatever that is) that is fine. But to effectively close the course for part of the weekend for those who don’t want to take part is wrong. But then, that’s just my opinion.

So you are against comps?

 

[KenL]

So you are against comps?

Of course not.

 

[KenL]

Tee times are a limited resource .
Every use of a tee blocks someone else from using it.
If a tee time is booked it deprives players who don't have a regular group and enjoy playing in a roll up from playing at that time.
Competition Tee times deprive non competitors from playing.
Providing roll up reservations are genuinely open and don't overwhelm the slots available by having say two hours at a time devoted to them . I don't see why they should not be part of a clubs tee useage.

Two hours of prime weekend times devoted to some sort of social group (may well be cliquey at some clubs) is not something I would want at my club.
Difficult to get a weekend time at my place, especially in winter as it is.

 

[PaulMdj]

So you are against comps?

Firstly: Comps raise money for the Club and help keep membership fees down. How do roll ups or swindles match this?

Secondly: How is it fair to limit the numbers who may want in play in the roll up/swindle?

 

[Mandofred]

Firstly: Comps raise money for the Club and help keep membership fees down. How do roll ups or swindles match this?

Secondly: How is it fair to limit the numbers who may want in play in the roll up/swindle?

I'd rather just pay a little bit more membership fees and not be blocked off the course as much.....It's one of the main reasons I left my last club.....summer jam packed with "events" that closed the course to members and you had to play at a reciprocal.

No limit on our numbers. We have about 7 tee times booked.....if the numbers start to go down (as they likely will in the winter) it drops to 6 I think. We have a fairly steady 25-30 for most of the year. We are lucky in a way that we are able to put out 3-4 groups off tee 1 and the other groups shoot over to 15+17 and we are all through the first tee in less than an hour easy. It works well at MY course....other courses not so much. Luckily each club can make the decision on what works best for them.....for Ripon, the rollups are an important part of the club. If they decided to do away with them that would probably end my time playing golf.

Our tee times are NOT packed....the 8-10am times are fairly busy most days, outside of those times you can usually just book on the day or a day or so ahead. If I was at a club that I had to plan weeks in advance and sit around the computer at exactly the right time to play fastest finger just to get a tee time....that also would end my time playing. I like golf, but at some point if it gets to be too much of a hassle I'll switch to something else.

 

[PaulMdj]

I'd rather just pay a little bit more membership fees and not be blocked off the course as much.....It's one of the main reasons I left my last club.....summer jam packed with "events" that closed the course to members and you had to play at a reciprocal.

No limit on our numbers. We have about 7 tee times booked.....if the numbers start to go down (as they likely will in the winter) it drops to 6 I think. We have a fairly steady 25-30 for most of the year. We are lucky in a way that we are able to put out 3-4 groups off tee 1 and the other groups shoot over to 15+17 and we are all through the first tee in less than an hour easy. It works well at MY course....other courses not so much. Luckily each club can make the decision on what works best for them.....for Ripon, the rollups are an important part of the club. If they decided to do away with them that would probably end my time playing golf.

Our tee times are NOT packed....the 8-10am times are fairly busy most days, outside of those times you can usually just book on the day or a day or so ahead. If I was at a club that I had to plan weeks in advance and sit around the computer at exactly the right time to play fastest finger just to get a tee time....that also would end my time playing. I like golf, but at some point if it gets to be too much of a hassle I'll switch to something else.

Thanks, but you haven’t answered the first point. I understand you may be happy paying more, but we are talking thousands of extra income raised by comps at some Clubs.

2nd point. 7 tee times is approx 1hr 10, what if another group wanted to join you? Would they be denied or more slots be closed off to those not wanting to play in a roll up?

I have no issue with roll ups/swindles/groups of mates playing together, it’s how some get priority treatment over others imo.

In your opinion how many people do you need to make it a roll up/swindle?

I think they work very well mon-fri, but are not well suited to weekends.

I know they work very well at some Clubs, but I also think they can be quite clicky at others, ie, you get 24 places, always full, popular, who decides who drops out to let new members integrate?

 

[Mandofred]

Thanks, but you haven’t answered the first point. I understand you may be happy paying more, but we are talking thousands of extra income raised by comps at some Clubs.

2nd point. 7 tee times is approx 1hr 10, what if another group wanted to join you? Would they be denied or more slots be closed off to those not wanting to play in a roll up?

I have no issue with roll ups/swindles/groups of mates playing together, it’s how some get priority treatment over others imo.

In your opinion how many people do you need to make it a roll up/swindle?

I think they work very well mon-fri, but are not well suited to weekends.

I know they work very well at some Clubs, but I also think they can be quite clicky at others, ie, you get 24 places, always full, popular, who decides who drops out to let new members integrate?

That I know of....no money for the club (other than membership fees of course).

7 tee times is less than an hour for us.....re-read my post. At my first club.....it would be an hour or more since you can't spread the groups out. Our system wouldn't work later in the day since we are starting some groups on holes 15+17. Later in the day there would be people on that part of the course.

It's a rollup....as long as we can fit them in and are members of the club they are welcome. There is slack in the system that we can probably get 8 groups out in time.

So who should get "priority". Those that like to play with their mates.....or those that like to play in large rollups? To me....there shouldn't be a priority for one or the other. The club should adjust things as well as possible to accommodate BOTH ways of playing as well as possible. Neither may be totally happy....but you shouldn't have to do away with one either.

Jeez....my opinion on how many for a rollup? That changes with every person/club. We have one rollup I play in early on a Sunday that quite often has about 6.....to me, that's not enough to have a blocked time for and I don't know why they still do it. To the others that are playing, they like it. It's the same with this whole argument about whether there should be rollups or not.....everybody has a different view and the club has to then make the best decisions possible to accommodate both. In MY opinion, there needs to be at least 10 minimum to even consider a blocked time. But I'm a big supporter of the club making decisions on what works best for them....you just can't make everybody happy and management has to make the hard decisions to make as many people as happy as possible. Each club does this differently. I've been a member at 3 different clubs.....I've liked and disliked things about each of them and they have really had a different overall feeling than the others.

There really is no right/wrong answer to whether there should be rollups or not. There are some people who really don't like them being there.....and others who love them. As I've said before numerous times..... with compromise both methods work, although the people who don't get things completely their way will be unhappy......as it is with everything else in life.

Oh....other than that tiny rollup on Sunday mornings, there are no rollups on the weekends at THIS course. My last 2 clubs there were.