Reducing carbon emissions

[harpo_72]

The other thing to mention is the technology trickle down. KERS and electric motors have come a very long way thanks to F1 technology. Every modern car is more efficient and burns less fuel (whether dead dinosaurs or magical fairy dust) thanks to brake and tyre technology developed in F1. F1 continues to attract alot more high flyers in research and development than the green movement, and puts them all to work on difficult problems with a better budget. So there are a good number of intangible benefits.

I think F1 tech is over egged, the FIA have dumbed it down with too many restrictions and the changes we see are very slow paced.
Biggest changes are when legislation comes in. When the fleets were going to be fined for having a co2 over the average, the OEM car manufacturers worked out their fines then strategically looked at what they could do and where their big misses were.
We had to stop producing certain spec cars .. so goodbye classic defender and the 5litre Jags lost 100bhp as well. More hybridisation was introduced such has mhev, hev and phev. China legislation forced 30miles range out of the hev and phev.
The really big OEMS have got their electric platforms out in market now, their combustion based platforms will be killed off .

 

[PJ87]

I think F1 tech is over egged, the FIA have dumbed it down with too many restrictions and the changes we see are very slow paced.
Biggest changes are when legislation comes in. When the fleets were going to be fined for having a co2 over the average, the OEM car manufacturers worked out their fines then strategically looked at what they could do and where their big misses were.
We had to stop producing certain spec cars .. so goodbye classic defender and the 5litre Jags lost 100bhp as well. More hybridisation was introduced such has mhev, hev and phev. China legislation forced 30miles range out of the hev and phev.
The really big OEMS have got their electric platforms out in market now, their combustion based platforms will be killed off .

I do find it remarkable that before this petrol and diesel ban they didn't ban cars that produce less than say 40 mpg minimum to encourage us to preserve oil rather than just burn through it

Same with speed limits, not reduced back down to 50s like in the oil crisis of the past
. Would really increase mpg

Also surprised they didn't ban non hybrids say from 2025 because hybrids are cracking tech and would really help people make the switch .. more affordable and cover the distance required

Some could do full ev mode on a plug in no problem others could just use it to top up their mpg which reduces emissions

 

[sweaty sock]

Yeah, but the infrastructure still needshuge development. Sure there's lots of charging points, but if you look at the average service station i reckon the volume of cars being filled up with fossil fuels out numbers those being plugged in by 100 to 1. Imagine how many cars go through the 15 petrol pumps in the 20 minutes it takes to top up an all electric. I'm still of the opinion that elecrric isnt the answer. I think once hydrogen is made as safe as petrol, its much easier to see service stations swapped to that.

 

[PJ87]

Yeah, but the infrastructure still needshuge development. Sure there's lots of charging points, but if you look at the average service station i reckon the volume of cars being filled up with fossil fuels out numbers those being plugged in by 100 to 1. Imagine how many cars go through the 15 petrol pumps in the 20 minutes it takes to top up an all electric. I'm still of the opinion that elecrric isnt the answer. I think once hydrogen is made as safe as petrol, its much easier to see service stations swapped to that.

Only green hydrogen.. otherwise it becomes semi pointless

I'm a firm believer that both are the answer

A hybrid if you will. It will become diesel and petrol

Hydrogen will be for lorries. Drivers that need longer distance

Electric for those doing short distance

So many can do electric on the majority of their drives.. average drive is 30 miles a day .. EVs do 150 miles plus that's a week worth on a charge (working week)

It will be a fine balance but also better battery tech is on the way with 500 mile charges with quicker time

 

[sweaty sock]

Same as green electricity... which if all cars become electric by 2030, well, we'll need some more nuclear sites...

Incidentally does nuclear count as green? I assume it does....

 

[PJ87]

Same as green electricity... which if all cars become electric by 2030, well, we'll need some more nuclear sites...

Incidentally does nuclear count as green? I assume it does....

Indeed it does. The micro nuclear plants are on the way

The high speed cable from Norway is done in which hydropower is sent and we send them wind power

The French cable once back on line sends us clean nuclear energy

If the gov could install all new builds with solar that would help , same with battieres to store the power

 

[harpo_72]

I do find it remarkable that before this petrol and diesel ban they didn't ban cars that produce less than say 40 mpg minimum to encourage us to preserve oil rather than just burn through it

Same with speed limits, not reduced back down to 50s like in the oil crisis of the past
. Would really increase mpg

Also surprised they didn't ban non hybrids say from 2025 because hybrids are cracking tech and would really help people make the switch .. more affordable and cover the distance required

Some could do full ev mode on a plug in no problem others could just use it to top up their mpg which reduces emissions

Have a look at the lynk&co 001 it’s phev and hev but it has a larger range than 30miles on pure battery. It’s probably more inline with what should be done with hybrids.
The problem for all the OEMs is the Germans wanting to do ridiculous speeds. We really need them to reduce them down to our speeds. The consequences are lighter vehicles because you don’t have to engineer for these high speeds. Brake discs drop in weight, tyre weight reduces, impact structure changes , engine sizes reduce … let’s not beat about the bush here the Germans are an environmental nightmare

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Have a look at the lynk&co 001 it’s phev and hev but it has a larger range than 30miles on pure battery. It’s probably more inline with what should be done with hybrids.
The problem for all the OEMs is the Germans wanting to do ridiculous speeds. We really need them to reduce them down to our speeds. The consequences are lighter vehicles because you don’t have to engineer for these high speeds. Brake discs drop in weight, tyre weight reduces, impact structure changes , engine sizes reduce … let’s not beat about the bush here the Germans are an environmental nightmare

Ironic when the Green party over there have been part of govt coalitions over and over. They either are not very good or just get out muscled each time.

 

[harpo_72]

Ironic when the Green party over there have been part of govt coalitions over and over. They either are not very good or just get out muscled each time.

Yup, and that’s why we should be giving them some hell over it. They need to clean up and stop all of this.
Can you imagine the range a Porsche Tycan or Audi E tron would have if they dropped their speeds to sub 100mph? JLR product would benefit as well, it’s crazy having a 2800kg 4x4 doing 160mph+ (admittedly it does it very well - but it’s pointless) .. the Germans have caused the top trumps of speed for prestige vehicles with their one section of unlimited autobahn

 

[Robster59]

Yeah, but the infrastructure still needshuge development. Sure there's lots of charging points, but if you look at the average service station i reckon the volume of cars being filled up with fossil fuels out numbers those being plugged in by 100 to 1. Imagine how many cars go through the 15 petrol pumps in the 20 minutes it takes to top up an all electric. I'm still of the opinion that elecrric isnt the answer. I think once hydrogen is made as safe as petrol, its much easier to see service stations swapped to that.

I was watching a talk from the major producers from the Hydrogen Transition Summit at COP26 last week and the general consensus is that Hydrogen will not be used for cars, and perhaps not even for light vans. They believe electric will still be used for these.

 

[bobmac]

Same as green electricity... which if all cars become electric by 2030, well, we'll need some more nuclear sites...

All ICE cars will not disappear in 2030, there will be millions still driving around after that.

''the growth in wind power from the extra offshore wind farms being developed will adequately meet the future demand for electrifying transport – an extra 100 terrawatt hours from our current 300 terrawatt hours consumed.

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily.''​

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...ries/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Yeah, but the infrastructure still needshuge development. Sure there's lots of charging points, but if you look at the average service station i reckon the volume of cars being filled up with fossil fuels out numbers those being plugged in by 100 to 1. Imagine how many cars go through the 15 petrol pumps in the 20 minutes it takes to top up an all electric. I'm still of the opinion that elecrric isnt the answer. I think once hydrogen is made as safe as petrol, its much easier to see service stations swapped to that.

But those who have changed, the majority will charge at home.
The rest will charge at the supermarket, the multistorey, the cinema, the work place, the curry house, the golf club, in fact anywhere you can park.

https://www.zap-map.com/connected-kerb-level-up-ev-charging-uk/

As for hydrogen, it's just too expensive right now.
You use electricity to separate hydrogen from oxygen, you then put the hydrogen in the car which turns it into electricity to move the car.
Why add the middle man?
Because it's quicker to fill a hydrogen car than an EV? True enough if you live near one of the 11 garages in the UK that sell hydrogen at £7-9 per gallon.
Not to mention how to store, transport and deliver pressurised hydrogen wont come cheap.
And if you think Battery cars are expensive, you won't get any change out of £65,000 for one of the 2 hydrogen models available.
Sure, the costs will come down but the the EV is 10 years ahead in regards cost and choice and for the 60% of all car owners who can charge at home, it's a no brainer.

 

[Bertie111]

One of the focuses I have heard in past is that ground source siphons just function admirably with underfloor warming.

 

[Robster59]

All ICE cars will not disappear in 2030, there will be millions still driving around after that.

''the growth in wind power from the extra offshore wind farms being developed will adequately meet the future demand for electrifying transport – an extra 100 terrawatt hours from our current 300 terrawatt hours consumed.

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily.''​

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...ries/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars



But those who have changed, the majority will charge at home.
The rest will charge at the supermarket, the multistorey, the cinema, the work place, the curry house, the golf club, in fact anywhere you can park.

https://www.zap-map.com/connected-kerb-level-up-ev-charging-uk/

As for hydrogen, it's just too expensive right now.
You use electricity to separate hydrogen from oxygen, you then put the hydrogen in the car which turns it into electricity to move the car.
Why add the middle man?
Because it's quicker to fill a hydrogen car than an EV? True enough if you live near one of the 11 garages in the UK that sell hydrogen at £7-9 per gallon.
Not to mention how to store, transport and deliver pressurised hydrogen wont come cheap.
And if you think Battery cars are expensive, you won't get any change out of £65,000 for one of the 2 hydrogen models available.
Sure, the costs will come down but the the EV is 10 years ahead in regards cost and choice and for the 60% of all car owners who can charge at home, it's a no brainer.

Our company truck fleet will convert 100% to Hydrogen power but, as above, it doesn't look like Hydrogen will be used for powering passenger cars. Even the hydrogen manufacturers don't believe that will happen.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Our company truck fleet will convert 100% to Hydrogen power but, as above, it doesn't look like Hydrogen will be used for powering passenger cars. Even the hydrogen manufacturers don't believe that will happen.

A friend of mine who works for one of the bigger car groups tells me they have been asked by Government to look at producing hydrogen cars, so who knows.

 

[Jimaroid]

Indeed it does. The micro nuclear plants are on the way

In whose lifetime are they on their way? They're not even out of a conceptual design stage the last I read.

 

[PJ87]

In whose lifetime are they on their way? They're not even out of a conceptual design stage the last I read.

Early 2030s it's believed they will start to come online

Ties in nicely with the new car ban and the take up of EVs

 

[Robster59]

A friend of mine who works for one of the bigger car groups tells me they have been asked by Government to look at producing hydrogen cars, so who knows.

It may be they have as an exercise. I work for one of the worlds biggest hydrogen producers and their message is that they are not looking at it for cars. I know they have investigated it in the past, but they have now decided that is not the way to go.

 

[Jimaroid]

Early 2030s it's believed they will start to come online

Ties in nicely with the new car ban and the take up of EVs

That's strange. Because according to the International Atomic Energy Agency the UK won't even exit the design stage until 2031, then will follow a 5 year construction phase before anything is operational as a minimum.

So no, they won't be ready for the take up of EVs.

 

[PJ87]

That's strange. Because according to the International Atomic Energy Agency the UK won't even exit the design stage until 2031, then will follow a 5 year construction phase before anything is operational as a minimum.

So no, they won't be ready for the take up of EVs.

Rolls Royce on their home page say early 2030 they will come on line

Plus not everyone is going to rush to buy ev in 2030 just because they have to . Second hand cars will still sell

Plus the grid is there.. if it's green or not comes later ..v

 

[Bunkermagnet]

The boss of Rolls Royce aero was saying last week that all their engines they produce can work on synthetic fuel. If they can do that for planes, there’s every chance they will do that for cars.