New women's tees

[Swango1980]

We've rebranded our tees as blue, burgundy, purple and green. Burgundy and purple look similar from a distance. Purple and blue quite similar too. Given the broad spectrum of colours available, it feels like the choice is a wind up for colour blind people.

They'll get it right one day.

Perhaps white, yellow and red would make things clearer?

 

[sunshine]

They'll get it right one day.

Perhaps white, yellow and red would make things clearer?

Maybe turquoise, cyan, teal and aqua

 

[Swango1980]

One of the reasons why we moved away from colours entirely.

We now have 65, 63, 60, 57 and 53 tees (these are based on length of course).

These are now routinely accepted and understood. We have been running various competitions off the different tees to ‘encourage’ sections to play off tees which are not their regular old ones, this has worked well too.

My instinct is that I could occasionally get puzzled as to what tees I was actually meant to be playing from.

With a colour, you just walk to the colour on each tee and commence. With a number, I may get to a tee box and ask myself "are we off 63 or 60 today".

In fairness, I'd probably be alright. Though I know some who seem to struggle with numbers in various ways.

I suppose it is OK for members, used to tee locations, especially if all comps are usually from back tees.

More tricky for visitors, or members if comps played off different tees frequently. Even more difficult on the rarer occasion, where tees are mixed up a bit, meaning on the odd hole the 57 tee may be further back than the 60 tee, for example.

 

[D-S]

My instinct is that I could occasionally get puzzled as to what tees I was actually meant to be playing from.

With a colour, you just walk to the colour on each tee and commence. With a number, I may get to a tee box and ask myself "are we off 63 or 60 today".

In fairness, I'd probably be alright. Though I know some who seem to struggle with numbers in various ways.

I suppose it is OK for members, used to tee locations, especially if all comps are usually from back tees.

More tricky for visitors, or members if comps played off different tees frequently. Even more difficult on the rarer occasion, where tees are mixed up a bit, meaning on the odd hole the 57 tee may be further back than the 60 tee, for example.

We ensured that all the 65 tees are further back than the 63 and so on so the tees are never ‘mixed up a bit’. To date we have had no adverse comments from visitors, whether just green fees or all the Opens we have run so far this year. The members acceptance has been surprisingly positive and favourable given the conservative nature if golfers in general.
People do ask, for example, “are we playing 63 or 60 today?” but this is exactly the same as “are we off yellows or whites?”.
More choice is a better thing and I think making a bigger move than just colours (we reconfigured the courses) properly broke associations with the past men’s and women’s tees. As an additional benefit we are able to cycle tees over the winter to allow more options of qualifying golf in the wetter months.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My club has recently changes our tees. Traditionally, we had whites, yellows and reds.

We now have Whites, Greens and Blues. Each set of tees have been rated for men and women, and scorecard changed accordingly. Therefore, hopefully tees will no longer be associated with gender.

It will be interesting if the men / seniors ever play competitions off blues, or the ladies will ever play a competition off yellows or whites. If not, then over time I guess blue tees may become associated with ladies anyway, and greens will be associated with men playing socially. Thus, no difference to yellows and reds now.

Likewise with us…Back in March we aligned our Stroke Indexing for Ladies and Gents and re-branded our tees - so Gents White and Yellow are now Silver and Purple. What were Ladies Red and Blue are now Gold and Green. All gender agnostic. The only restriction on tees members can use is that Ladies can’t play off our Silver in any comp or for handicap as (quoting the club) ‘off these back tees the course falls outside the parameters for women’s golf and so has not been rated’.

 

[Slab]

Maybe turquoise, cyan, teal and aqua

Teal is a very underrated and underused colour in golf

 

[Swango1980]

Likewise with us…Back in March we aligned our Stroke Indexing for Ladies and Gents and re-branded our tees - so Gents White and Yellow are now Silver and Purple. What were Ladies Red and Blue are now Gold and Green. All gender agnostic. The only restriction on tees members can use is that Ladies can’t play off our Silver in any comp or for handicap as (quoting the club) ‘off these back tees the course falls outside the parameters for women’s golf and so has not been rated’.

Is it impossible to measure a rating for women off silvers? Or was it just because it was felt many women would struggle? I bet there are many decent women golfers who could play off the silvers much better than many men I play with.

I don't expect any ladies to play comps off our whites. Although they are still rated. I think the CR for them is around 77/78, as opposed to 71ish for men

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Is it impossible to measure a rating for women off silvers? Or was it just because it was felt many women would struggle? I bet there are many decent women golfers who could play off the silvers much better than many men I play with.

I don't expect any ladies to play comps off our whites. Although they are still rated. I think the CR for them is around 77/78, as opposed to 71ish for men

I don’t know the reasoning - the rationale was ‘didn’t meet the parameters…’.

I will guess that as we have a few quite significant carries off the back tees and so, for women, rating for the bogey player would be difficult in respect of recovery from failing to make some of the carries. Plus when failing to make a carry a player choosing to put another ball in play doesn’t solve the problem…they still can’t make the carry…and that could go on ad infinitum (or until no balls left).

I’ll add that many of our shorter hitting gents very rarely, some never, play off our back tees for that same reason.

 

[Swango1980]

I don’t know the reasoning - the rationale was ‘didn’t meet the parameters…’.

I will guess that as we have some quite significant carries off the back tees and so, for women, rating for the bogey player would be difficult in respect of recovery from failing to make some of the carries.

Interesting.

I still have always felt that there should be one set of measurements, regardless of gender. Then everyone gets handicap from those.

Otherwise, you get issues like this. Presumably, an excellent amateur female golfer could not play a round for handicap off your silvers. Even if she hits ball further than most men club golfers. Just because the standard female carry distance cannot perhaps clear a penalty area or 2

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Interesting.

I still have always felt that there should be one set of measurements, regardless of gender. Then everyone gets handicap from those.

Otherwise, you get issues like this. Presumably, an excellent amateur female golfer could not play a round for handicap off your silvers. Even if she hits ball further than most men club golfers. Just because the standard female carry distance cannot perhaps clear a penalty area or 2

Indeed…and of course we have that precise scenario at my place. Few years ago I played a casual knock with said player off our back tees. She went round in 4 under (well that’s what she told me - I wasn’t counting and I didn’t argue).

 

[D-S]

The model women’s bogey player carries the ball 125 yards, so if the carries from back tees are significantly longer than this then it is nigh on impossible to rate.

 

[Backache]

All our tees are rated for and can be used by either sex and have been for a number of years now.

The point is not really that tees should be rated for both sexes though I'm glad they are.
The point is that for the majority of women golfers the foremost tees provide a significantly more difficult challenge to them than the rearmost tees do to the men at most golf courses.

 

[wjemather]

I don’t know the reasoning - the rationale was ‘didn’t meet the parameters…’.

I will guess that as we have a few quite significant carries off the back tees and so, for women, rating for the bogey player would be difficult in respect of recovery from failing to make some of the carries. Plus when failing to make a carry a player choosing to put another ball in play doesn’t solve the problem…they still can’t make the carry…and that could go on ad infinitum (or until no balls left).

I’ll add that many of our shorter hitting gents very rarely, some never, play off our back tees for that same reason.

It's because they are 6449 yards and the standard limit EG have put on rating tees for women is ~6000 yards - this is because tees longer than that simply won't get used.

If the purple tees (6048 yards) don't get much use, it's unlikely they will be re-rated in the next cycle.

 

[louise_a]

Happy to report that the ladies committee has decided trial my idea in 3 competitions in September allowing ladies to play from Green, Red or Blue tees. Red is the normal ladies competition tee, blue is shorter, green is longer.

 

[Swango1980]

It's because they are 6449 yards and the standard limit EG have put on rating tees for women is ~6000 yards - this is because tees longer than that simply won't get used.

If the purple tees (6048 yards) don't get much use, it's unlikely they will be re-rated in the next cycle.

Seems institutionally sexist to me . But that's not my fight

 

[woofers]

It's because they are 6449 yards and the standard limit EG have put on rating tees for women is ~6000 yards - this is because tees longer than that simply won't get used.

If the purple tees (6048 yards) don't get much use, it's unlikely they will be re-rated in the next cycle.

I attended a recent EG WHS / Course Rating update, the rating update included something similiar including “6,400 yds is longer than most LET courses”. Why rate a course for club golfers that is longer than that played by professionals. It’s just practicality.
Does a club pay for each set of tees to be measured and rated, or is it an inclusive fee for all tees?

 

[wjemather]

Seems institutionally sexist to me . But that's not my fight

No, just practical. Why waste time and effort rating tees that are not going to be used?

Lots of clubs have requested (and got) additional longer tees rated for women (what were commonly the yellow tees) but the reality is that most of them have been a complete waste of time for rating teams as they will almost never get used, and so will not be re-rated in the next cycle.

 

[wjemather]

I attended a recent EG WHS / Course Rating update, the rating update included something similiar including “6,400 yds is longer than most LET courses”. Why rate a course for club golfers that is longer than that played by professionals. It’s just practicality.
Does a club pay for each set of tees to be measured and rated, or is it an inclusive fee for all tees?

Exactly.
Ratings are effectively paid for by the national authority from affiliation fees with clubs paying for whatever pre-requisite work is needed at their course (permanent distance markers, course measurement, etc.), but the majority of the work is carried out by unpaid volunteers and the cost is their time.

 

[Swango1980]

No, just practical. Why waste time and effort rating tees that are not going to be used?

Lots of clubs have requested (and got) additional longer tees rated for women (what were commonly the yellow tees) but the reality is that most of them have been a complete waste of time for rating teams as they will almost never get used, and so will not be re-rated in the next cycle.

Well, our club "wasted time and effort" to rate the white tees for women, and I genuinely don't think the ladies will ever play off them. I'm not sure how much time and effort was wasted.

But, it is a fair statement. To all young female golfers out there, who will be able to smack a ball impressively long, there is a good chance some clubs won't waste time and effort on rating specific tees for you, because most other women can't hit it very far.

Meanwhile, I'm grouped with an 80 year old man or 40 handicapper male who smashing their drives 80 yards off the white tees.

 

[The Squirrel]

Happy to report that the ladies committee has decided trial my idea in 3 competitions in September allowing ladies to play from Green, Red or Blue tees. Red is the normal ladies competition tee, blue is shorter, green is longer.

Excellent work by you. When the objecting ladies realise this doesn’t affect them in any way then objections will fall away and people can simply get on with playing the tee that best suits their game .