Madeleine McCann

[blackpuddinmonster]

There is no such thing as the perfect parent.
How many parents on here can honestly, hand on heart, say they have never done anything stupid whilst with their children ?
I know i can't. Driving at close to a 100mph on the motorway just so my little girl wouldn't be a few minutes late for a party is one thing that comes to mind. Stupid !
No, whats important here is little Maddie.
Personally i don't care how much time, or money is spent. If they find this little girl and return her to her rightfull place, with her parents, i for one will be delighted.
And so should everyone else.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is no such thing as the perfect parent.
How many parents on here can honestly, hand on heart, say they have never done anything stupid whilst with their children ?
I know i can't. Driving at close to a 100mph on the motorway just so my little girl wouldn't be a few minutes late for a party is one thing that comes to mind. Stupid !
No, whats important here is little Maddie.
Personally i don't care how much time, or money is spent. If they find this little girl and return her to her rightfull place, with her parents, i for one will be delighted.
And so should everyone else.

Corect sir - and your driving with a young child in the back at 100mph or with with a drink in you? None of us have ever done that have we.

And sorry - I disagree wirth the majority on the risk - I think it is completely reasonable for the McCanns to have assumed that their children would be safe in a holiday complex such as that in which they were in. It would have been somewhat different had they been in - let's say - an rented apartment in the middle of an Algarve town - with no restrictions on public access - and they had headed off for a meal in a restaurant 5 mins walk away. They didn't 'make a mistake' - as that implies they should or could have known better. You only have to consider how many incidents of this nature have ever occurred to know the level of risk...to all intents and purposes the risk is nil. And to suggest otehrwise is disingenuous. Parents every day expose their children to much greater levels of risk.

 

[Fish]

I have always suspected, and still do, that this was not an opportune moment as it was executed too cleanly leaving next to nothing to investigate, a well planned and thought-out abduction which for me says that the children had been left alone before and were observed for this crime to be carried out in the way it was.

If that was not the case, then like in many situations, including many family murders, the guilty are always much closer to home and have a direct or indirect association or relationship with the family with the knowledge of their movements, we would all like to believe that is not the case but that is a statistical fact.

The McCanns being professional people should have known better and they put their children at risk by leaving them alone unsupervised, I am confident that it wasn't the first time they did that but, asking us (me) to believe that someone might know that they were alone in their room and not being checked-on and took a wild opportunity to abduct the little girl leaving not a single trace of evidence or sighting, sorry, not for me.

It stunk at the beginning and still leaves a nasty smell now IMO

 

[NWJocko]

Corect sir - and your driving with a young child in the back at 100mph or with with a drink in you? None of us have ever done that have we.

And sorry - I disagree wirth the majority on the risk - I think it is completely reasonable for the McCanns to have assumed that their children would be safe in a holiday complex such as that in which they were in. It would have been somewhat different had they been in - let's say - an rented apartment in the middle of an Algarve town - with no restrictions on public access - and they had headed off for a meal in a restaurant 5 mins walk away. They didn't 'make a mistake' - as that implies they should or could have known better. You only have to consider how many incidents of this nature have ever occurred to know the level of risk...to all intents and purposes the risk is nil. And to suggest otehrwise is disingenuous. Parents every day expose their children to much greater levels of risk.

So, on one thread you're saying you've told your daughter to have lights on when driving in bright sunlight in case of "shadows from a hedge" and here you are advocating leaving a 4/5 year old in an apartment on her own while you go out for dinner!?

 

[Ethan]

Some very unforgiving replies here.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't leave my kids as they did, but it is wrong and unfair to call that neglect. And adding the word 'Period' after that comment doesn't increase the truth of it either, by the way.

It is very easy after the fact to condemn them. I am sure they have regretted what happened enough to make the thoughts of people on this site irrelevant. But they had what appeared to be a sensible mature kid. Is it OK to sit downstairs while the kids are in bed? Sure. Is it OK to sit on the patio outside while the kids are inside? Sure. So the McCanns didn't drive off into town leaving the kids. They sat at a restaurant less than 100 yards away which they chose to give line of sight to the house in what they thought was a secure resort in a safe area. One sand wedge shot away.

If there was a predator tracking Maddy, he would have got her, and if he is tracking yours, he will get them too. The reality is that such an event is vanishingly rare, but it happened to them, so now everyone is an expert on child care. It could have happened, in one version or another, to any of us with kids. If you don't believe that, you are in denial.

I hope little Maddy is alive and well, although I fear otherwise.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So, on one thread you're saying you've told your daughter to have lights on when driving in bright sunlight in case of "shadows from a hedge" and here you are advocating leaving a 4/5 year old in an apartment on her own while you go out for dinner!?

I'm not advocating anything - I'm saying that to the McCanns the perceived level of risk would have been virtually nil - and so yes - in the same circumstances I might have done the same.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Some very unforgiving replies here.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't leave my kids as they did, but it is wrong and unfair to call that neglect. And adding the word 'Period' after that comment doesn't increase the truth of it either, by the way.

It is very easy after the fact to condemn them. I am sure they have regretted what happened enough to make the thoughts of people on this site irrelevant. But they had what appeared to be a sensible mature kid. Is it OK to sit downstairs while the kids are in bed? Sure. Is it OK to sit on the patio outside while the kids are inside? Sure. So the McCanns didn't drive off into town leaving the kids. They sat at a restaurant less than 100 yards away which they chose to give line of sight to the house in what they thought was a secure resort in a safe area. One sand wedge shot away.

If there was a predator tracking Maddy, he would have got her, and if he is tracking yours, he will get them too. The reality is that such an event is vanishingly rare, but it happened to them, so now everyone is an expert on child care. It could have happened, in one version or another, to any of us with kids. If you don't believe that, you are in denial.

I hope little Maddy is alive and well, although I fear otherwise.

A reasonable and sensitive post Sir

 

[Hobbit]

Some very unforgiving replies here.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't leave my kids as they did, but it is wrong and unfair to call that neglect. And adding the word 'Period' after that comment doesn't increase the truth of it either, by the way.

It is very easy after the fact to condemn them. I am sure they have regretted what happened enough to make the thoughts of people on this site irrelevant. But they had what appeared to be a sensible mature kid. Is it OK to sit downstairs while the kids are in bed? Sure. Is it OK to sit on the patio outside while the kids are inside? Sure. So the McCanns didn't drive off into town leaving the kids. They sat at a restaurant less than 100 yards away which they chose to give line of sight to the house in what they thought was a secure resort in a safe area. One sand wedge shot away.

If there was a predator tracking Maddy, he would have got her, and if he is tracking yours, he will get them too. The reality is that such an event is vanishingly rare, but it happened to them, so now everyone is an expert on child care. It could have happened, in one version or another, to any of us with kids. If you don't believe that, you are in denial.

I hope little Maddy is alive and well, although I fear otherwise.

Excellent, reasoned post.

Are we as parents neglectful for letting our children walk to school or play out with firends?

As for taking their other child off them, or "nil sympathy..." There's more than one victim here - a little compassion wouldn't go amiss.

 

[sawtooth]

We all hope that Maddie is found alive and well but leaving kids that age alone at home was plain reckless.

We wouldn't do that at home in our close whilst popping next door for a drink let alone abroad in a place full of strangers. I'm sorry but who would ever think that a resort like that was ever going to be secure? the risk was obviously there and they gambled.

I feel sorry for them but nobody can deny that they were negligent, you cannot say it was responsible parenting.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We all hope that Maddie is found alive and well but leaving kids that age alone at home was plain reckless.

We wouldn't do that at home in our close whilst popping next door for a drink let alone abroad in a place full of strangers. I'm sorry but who would ever think that a resort like that was ever going to be secure? the risk was obviously there and they gambled.

I feel sorry for them but nobody can deny that they were negligent, you cannot say it was responsible parenting.

In the context of where they were and what they were doing I do not believe they were really negligent. Negligence implies a serious level of positive carelessness - and I don't think that was the case at all.

 

[guest100718]

In the context of where they were and what they were doing I do not believe they were really negligent. Negligence implies a serious level of positive carelessness - and I don't think that was the case at all.

Whatever the words used to describe their actions, from my own perspective I cannot see any occasion whereby it would be acceptable to leave a 4 y.o alone for any amount of time, no matter what the circumstances.

 

[Fish]

In the context of where they were and what they were doing I do not believe they were really negligent. Negligence implies a serious level of positive carelessness - and I don't think that was the case at all.

Whilst the law doesn’t state an age when you can leave a child on their own, it is however an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.

It says that your are to use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone, so your saying that a 3yr old, in their judgement was acceptable!

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:

1/ Children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time, babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone.

I think a 3yr old firmly falls foul of this, don't you.

Your opinion is clearly noted but, you are excusing their actions, she was 3yrs old for gods sake.

Its neglect, and I'm being kind with that accusation.

 

[bozza]

My gripe is that if this had been a family on benefits living in a council house and had popped to the local pub for a meal/drink they would be getting called every name under the sun and I bet they would have social services involved if they had other children.

In my eyes it's blatent neglect on there part for leaving there children in a villa in a foreign country while they were out enjoying mya levels, you're children's safety/health should come first no matter what.

Also something doesn't seem quite right with the whole in me eyes, I hope I'm wrong but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Pistol Peter]

I have always suspected, and still do, that this was not an opportune moment as it was executed too cleanly leaving next to nothing to investigate, a well planned and thought-out abduction which for me says that the children had been left alone before and were observed for this crime to be carried out in the way it was.

If that was not the case, then like in many situations, including many family murders, the guilty are always much closer to home and have a direct or indirect association or relationship with the family with the knowledge of their movements, we would all like to believe that is not the case but that is a statistical fact.

The McCanns being professional people should have known better and they put their children at risk by leaving them alone unsupervised, I am confident that it wasn't the first time they did that but, asking us (me) to believe that someone might know that they were alone in their room and not being checked-on and took a wild opportunity to abduct the little girl leaving not a single trace of evidence or sighting, sorry, not for me.

It stunk at the beginning and still leaves a nasty smell now IMO

I totally agree with your comments Mr Fish, there is far more than meets the eye to this and as much as it is sad that a child has been taken but I feel that the parents were in the wrong and should have punished by law. What would the law have done if it had happened in the UK, I am sure criminal charges would have been made against the parents.

I just hope the young girl is alive and well and who knows she might be getting looked after better by new parents.

 

[Val]

Im not going to get overly drawn into this but have always had this thought.

If the parents were jobless layabouts from the rougher end of **insert big UK city** would they have been granted the same airtime or sympathy as the McCanns have had?

 

[Fish]

Im not going to get overly drawn into this but have always had this thought.

If the parents were jobless layabouts from the rougher end of **insert big UK city** would they have been granted the same airtime or sympathy as the McCanns have had?

Simple answer, no!

And if they still had other children at that time I would suspect the calls for them to be taken away from them would have been loud from all corners.

I've just read further into it and as per my previous post, they did indeed leave her/them every night at the same time for 6 nights previously as the table was block booked for the week and used every night by the group, including the McCanns. As such I would be inclined to think that checking them would have got more spaced out each night as a comfort zone became apparent which clearly proves to me that they thought of only themselves first and not that of their children so they placed them at risk which is tantamount to neglect.

 

[mikee247]

Some very unforgiving replies here.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't leave my kids as they did, but it is wrong and unfair to call that neglect. And adding the word 'Period' after that comment doesn't increase the truth of it either, by the way.

It is very easy after the fact to condemn them. I am sure they have regretted what happened enough to make the thoughts of people on this site irrelevant. But they had what appeared to be a sensible mature kid. Is it OK to sit downstairs while the kids are in bed? Sure. Is it OK to sit on the patio outside while the kids are inside? Sure. So the McCanns didn't drive off into town leaving the kids. They sat at a restaurant less than 100 yards away which they chose to give line of sight to the house in what they thought was a secure resort in a safe area. One sand wedge shot away.

If there was a predator tracking Maddy, he would have got her, and if he is tracking yours, he will get them too. The reality is that such an event is vanishingly rare, but it happened to them, so now everyone is an expert on child care. It could have happened, in one version or another, to any of us with kids. If you don't believe that, you are in denial.

I hope little Maddy is alive and well, although I fear otherwise.

This is very well written and it demonstrates how you can be compassionate and considerate whilst also being factual about the situation at the same time. However, it is in my opinion that if you are intending to start a new investigation with a fresh team then from the outset all possibilities must be explored thoroughly. It is also my opinion that the investigators must have had a track record in similar cases to take reference from with a strong but neutral overview of the situation in order to conduct an investigation accurately and without bias. You have to take the "emotional" out of this, no matter how hard it may be, in order to come to an conclusion and therefore you will have to expose the parents fully for their part in this dreadful chain of events. Emotional opinions being discussed previously and on places like here cannot offer any accuracy to a discussion or input to an investigation therefore are purely assumptive based on what people think happened. Fortunately factual evidence only can be used and although we can all offer our opinion of who we think is to blame or what actually happened, all potential options must be explored whether we think it soap opera or not.

The fact that Maddie was left on her own and whether it be negligent or not, offers a major and fundamental part of the case that needs to be explored and is very relevant. I also think that the parents know this and will be prepared to take the potential flak that will come their way, from the minority as it inevitably will. This personal exposure gives me the confidence that they are telling the truth.

Being a father of 3 myself its very hard to do everything right....something goes wrong and god forbid you loose one you will always blame yourself no matter what. I honestly believe the parents of Maddie will never forgive themselves and they have been punished enough for what turned out to be a huge error in judgement. In terms of finding Maddie.,I fear the worst Im afraid

 

[Ethan]

This is very well written and it demonstrates how you can be compassionate and considerate whilst also being factual about the situation at the same time. However, it is in my opinion that if you are intending to start a new investigation with a fresh team then from the outset all possibilities must be explored thoroughly. It is also my opinion that the investigators must have had a track record in similar cases to take reference from with a strong but neutral overview of the situation in order to conduct an investigation accurately and without bias. You have to take the "emotional" out of this, no matter how hard it may be, in order to come to an conclusion and therefore you will have to expose the parents fully for their part in this dreadful chain of events. Emotional opinions being discussed previously and on places like here cannot offer any accuracy to a discussion or input to an investigation therefore are purely assumptive based on what people think happened. Fortunately factual evidence only can be used and although we can all offer our opinion of who we think is to blame or what actually happened, all potential options must be explored whether we think it soap opera or not.

The fact that Maddie was left on her own and whether it be negligent or not, offers a major and fundamental part of the case that needs to be explored and is very relevant. I also think that the parents know this and will be prepared to take the potential flak that will come their way, from the minority as it inevitably will. This personal exposure gives me the confidence that they are telling the truth.

Being a father of 3 myself its very hard to do everything right....something goes wrong and god forbid you loose one you will always blame yourself no matter what. I honestly believe the parents of Maddie will never forgive themselves and they have been punished enough for what turned out to be a huge error in judgement. In terms of finding Maddie.,I fear the worst Im afraid

I agree that any new investigation must start at the beginning and take nothing as read.

However, it is also a principle of law that anyone is innocent until proven guilty, so people on an internet forum who know nothing other than what they have read on Wikipedia or in a redtop and who feel some kind of reverse snobbery because these are two doctors, indulging in innuendo and 'it looks funny to me' armchair detectiving is also wrong.

 

[guest100718]

I agree that any new investigation must start at the beginning and take nothing as read.

However, it is also a principle of law that anyone is innocent until proven guilty, so people on an internet forum who know nothing other than what they have read on Wikipedia or in a redtop and who feel some kind of reverse snobbery because these are two doctors, indulging in innuendo and 'it looks funny to me' armchair detectiving is also wrong.

These type of crimes are never opportunistic.

 

[ger147]

These type of crimes are never opportunistic.

Never is a very long time...