LIV Golf

[wjemather]

Batia now has 2 PGA tour wins. One of which is between the 23 & 24 Masters Tournaments.

So he has earned his spot.

So what you're saying is that if you don't play on the PGA Tour, it's almost impossible to earn an invitation into the Masters. But if you do play on the PGA Tour, it's not that difficult because there are so many weak fields.

Yeah, I think we all knew that already.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Batia now has 2 PGA tour wins. One of which is between the 23 & 24 Masters Tournaments.

So he has earned his spot.

I don't think anyone is disputing that Batia has earned his spot. The point being made is that others have equally earned their spot but due to the invitational system at the Masters and also the mess that is the rankings system right now, they will not be there.

 

[D-S]

Batia is in because he won, not his ranking. Beating a distinctly stronger field than any LIV one. Burmeister has no such.
I dont see that there is really any argument here at all.

Is that really true? In terms of OWGR points it may have been but we know that they are no longer representative. Was it distinctly stronger?

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Batia has earned his spot. The point being made is that others have equally earned their spot but due to the invitational system at the Masters and also the mess that is the rankings system right now, they will not be there.

Well, without wanting to sound like a broken record. He knew what he was getting into. He chose money over majors.

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

So what you're saying is that if you don't play on the PGA Tour, it's almost impossible to earn an invitation into the Masters. But if you do play on the PGA Tour, it's not that difficult because there are so many weak fields.

Yeah, I think we all knew that already.

Doesn’t matter how you want to look at it. He chose this. The rules are there in writing. He managed to beat what was in front of him, some top players, some has beens and some never weres. Just as Batia did.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Well, without wanting to sound like a broken record. He knew what he was getting into. He chose money over majors.

I don't think he is complaining. It is fans, looking on from the outside who are disappointed. We want the strongest fields for majors, we aren't getting them, largely through stubbornness and protectionism.

 

[Singlefiguregokfer]

I don't think he is complaining. It is fans, looking on from the outside who are disappointed. We want the strongest fields for majors, we aren't getting them, largely through stubbornness and protectionism.

I’d ask which big name LIV players won’t be there?
Only a couple…we as fans will still get to watch a fantastic course with the vast majority of the best players.

Not featuring Burmy isn’t a big loss. He’s never exactly been classed as one of the best players in the world before. Look at his record. He has 4 DPWT wins with a combined 6 players from the top 100 OWGR.

 

[doublebogey7]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Batia has earned his spot. The point being made is that others have equally earned their spot but due to the invitational system at the Masters and also the mess that is the rankings system right now, they will not be there.

Sorry, but Batia did not get entry to the Masters by invitation alone, he qualified by winning at the weekend.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I’d ask which big name LIV players won’t be there?
Only a couple…we as fans will still get to watch a fantastic course with the vast majority of the best players.

Not featuring Burmy isn’t a big loss. He’s never exactly been classed as one of the best players in the world before. Look at his record. He has 4 DPWT wins with a combined 6 players from the top 100 OWGR.

Not every tournament is won by a big name, as shown by Batia. Golf has a history of people coming from the middle of the pack, it is what keeps it interesting. If you don't include them then they can never become big players.

The end of your second sentence covers the problem though, it will have the majority of the best players, but not all of them. That's a shame.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Sorry, but Batia did not get entry to the Masters by invitation alone, he qualified by winning at the weekend.

I know. So did Burmester but his comp doesn't count apparently. We know why, but that doesn't stop it from being a shame. Majors should have the best players there, not just most of them.

 

[SteveW86]

I know. So did Burmester but his comp doesn't count apparently. We know why, but that doesn't stop it from being a shame. Majors should have the best players there, not just most of them.

Maybe the shame is the players who decided to leave?

Why does the blame have to be laid at Augusta, the PGA/PGAT or whoever else. The players made the choice to leave and play on a tour which didnt qualify them for ranking points, or give them direct entry into the Majors...lay the blame for it being a shame at their door.

It's possible that in the future there will be an entry point into the Majors directly from LIV, but lets please stop blaming the wrong people. (all IMO of course)

 

[Orikoru]

Akshay Batia won the weekend tournament taking his world ranking from 95 to 87. Winning that qualified him into the Masters. In 2021 Burmester was ranked 67, 2022 ranked 55, 2023 ranked 72 (drifted as he had joined liv). Your statement doesn't quite add up when you look at it like that.

But how come he's never once played in the Masters then? (Burmester)

 

[SteveW86]

But how come he's never once played in the Masters then? (Burmester)

Because he was never good enough to be ranked high enough to get an invite, or he didnt win a tournament which meant he got an invite.

 

[Orikoru]

Because he was never good enough to be ranked high enough to get an invite, or he didnt win a tournament which meant he got an invite.

That's what I mean.. I was challenging the statement that Bhatia got in on ranking, when Burmester's was apparently lower, but he never got in.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

That's what I mean.. I was challenging the statement that Bhatia got in on ranking, when Burmester's was apparently lower, but he never got in.

Bhatia got in because he won at the weekend. If it was purely ranking then he would not have got the invite. Such is the Masters........

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Maybe the shame is the players who decided to leave?

Why does the blame have to be laid at Augusta, the PGA/PGAT or whoever else. The players made the choice to leave and play on a tour which didnt qualify them for ranking points, or give them direct entry into the Majors...lay the blame for it being a shame at their door.

It's possible that in the future there will be an entry point into the Majors directly from LIV, but lets please stop blaming the wrong people. (all IMO of course)

Did we shame players when they left the European Tour to join the money machine that is the PGA? Is the move to LIV really that different (apart from it being louder and brighter, or is it only louder?)

Where you lay the blame is clearly opinion, blimey does this thread show that, but I differ from you on that one. I think the Majors should be above inter tour bickering and fighting, they should be the elite tournaments with the very best there, not most of the very best. I have no problem with the PGA having the hump and banning LIV golfers from their tournaments but the majors should be separate and above this.

 

[Orikoru]

Did we shame players when they left the European Tour to join the money machine that is the PGA? Is the move to LIV really that different (apart from it being louder and brighter, or is it only louder?)

Where you lay the blame is clearly opinion, blimey does this thread show that, but I differ from you on that one. I think the Majors should be above inter tour bickering and fighting, they should be the elite tournaments with the very best there, not most of the very best. I have no problem with the PGA having the hump and banning LIV golfers from their tournaments but the majors should be separate and above this.

Agree to be honest. It perplexes me that the majors don't seem to want to prioritise ensuring they have the absolute best field of golfers in their events. Quite happy to plod along and say "ho-hum, our hands are tied".

 

[BiMGuy]

Did we shame players when they left the European Tour to join the money machine that is the PGA? Is the move to LIV really that different (apart from it being louder and brighter, or is it only louder?)

Where you lay the blame is clearly opinion, blimey does this thread show that, but I differ from you on that one. I think the Majors should be above inter tour bickering and fighting, they should be the elite tournaments with the very best there, not most of the very best. I have no problem with the PGA having the hump and banning LIV golfers from their tournaments but the majors should be separate and above this.

Yes it is very different. Those players had to earn their places on the PGAT.

How many players have earned a place on LiV? And they are competing in a closed shop.

The only fans that are complaining about Burmister not being there are the LiV cheerleaders, most golf fans won’t give it a second thought.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Agree to be honest. It perplexes me that the majors don't seem to want to prioritise ensuring they have the absolute best field of golfers in their events. Quite happy to plod along and say "ho-hum, our hands are tied".

Here is another question to get people hyper ventilating. How long until the majors ask the ranking system to be flexible and look to bend to accept LIV players into the system? They can stay rigid and lose big players as their exemptions disappear, or they can say 'we want the best and your system is no longer providing them'. The rankings is fixated on certain issues, maybe they should not be. If the likes of Rahm, Smith, Koepka are happy to play on LIV, and no one can dispute those are world class players, and they are disappearing down the current rankings, then that suggests the system is failing right now.

 

[wjemather]

Maybe the shame is the players who decided to leave?

Why does the blame have to be laid at Augusta, the PGA/PGAT or whoever else. The players made the choice to leave and play on a tour which didnt qualify them for ranking points, or give them direct entry into the Majors...lay the blame for it being a shame at their door.

It's possible that in the future there will be an entry point into the Majors directly from LIV, but lets please stop blaming the wrong people. (all IMO of course)

Elite tournament golf isn't (or shouldn't be) a PGA Tour owned and operated cartel.
There should be no one designated tour that you have to play on in order to get a fair crack at exemptions into majors. (PGA Championship aside, due to it's history,) the majors are not (supposed to be) aligned to any tour or invested in protecting any tour's interests.

If we're going to point fingers, there should certainly be some pointing at the majors who are willfully failing to ensure they have as many of the best players in their fields as possible. Instead they have seemingly decided to prioritise protection of the cartel (that apparently doesn't exist).