LIV Golf

IainP said:
Is it any different from you regularly posting on this thread, when you have no interest in it? ;):p
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I’m I the one who ran of with the Saudis money crying about how badly the PGAT was treating me?

I’m interested in professional golf. LiV has come along and is a part of the story. I don’t have to like it to find it intriguing.

Or should this be a thread just for those on the payroll or who want to paint it in a positive light?
 
IainP said:
Did you miss this? (From PGAT releaes)

"Players who finished in the top 20 of the 2022 Player Impact Program (PIP) are required to play in the elevated events they are eligible to play in, although players are allowed to skip one over the course of the year. "
"PGA Tour designated, or elevated, events are 17 tournaments throughout the year that will have all of the best players competing for increased purses. "

Remains to be seen if they drop that for 2024 though
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I was talking about pre LIV, before PGAT felt like they were "pushed" to change.

Begs the question, is any of it really good for the game? I guess it really depends on your individual point of view. Pre LIV the best players in the world pretty much played on one tour. They primarily played in the handful most lucrative events (outside Majors and WGCs) throughout the year, but had a decent amount of flexibility, hence there were a lot of events that you would still see a scattering of very good players. It even allowed other players to play on other Tours outside the PGAT. Perhaps Aussies would like to go and play the Oz Open, for example. Or some top players try and feature in the big DP World Tour events.

LIV comes along, attracts a few of the best players (but ideally it would want many more), and locks them into 14 events this year, outside the Majors. No flexibility during any of those weekends. The PGAT respond with elevated events, and locking their players in (although, wonder if that was necessary? The fact that prize money was elevated, I'd have thought that was a big enough carrot to attract the best players on the Tour?). Perhaps some will see it as a good thing, with a few more events with more of the top players. Although, these are spread over 2 tours which may be less appealing. It could be a bad thing because outside these events, we rarely see any of the best players at all (whereas before, you'd get a scattering of them at most events). We'll rarely see the best players going and playing the odd event elsewhere (especially if LIV ever get their wish in getting a decent amount of ranking points). And, maybe it slightly reduces the appeal of the Majors a little, given they are just another event with the best players (though, if you have LIV and PGAT players consistently qualifying and playing in majors, it might be a good thing as they'll be the only times you see the players pitted against each other)
 
X
Swango1980 said:
There are differences between the contracts LIV players are on, compared to what their requirements were on the PGA Tour. BiMGuy simply pointed out what appears to be a difference between these. All you have done is discuss another difference, which is a guaranteed income for LIV players. Your counter is not a counter at all, you are just making another point.

BiMGuy has simply highlighted the point that LIV players are much more permanently tied into playing all the LIV events, without any choice. During the 14 weekends that LIV is played, there is absolutely no chance a LIV player could compete on another tour instead, even if they were allowed by that tour, as far as I am aware. That was simply not the case before with the PGAT. The player had the flexibility to pick and choose any of the events, and then work that around other events in other tours. I think the PGAT was usually happy enough with players doing this, and accepted the request most of the time?

When LIV is played, I think it runs in parallel to some big events on the PGAT. If Abraham Ancer wanted to play in the Mexican Open, and was allowed by PGAT, would LIV allow him? I think LIV are in Singapore that weekend. The first playoff event for the FedEx is 7-13 August. If LIV managed to get all the top players it wanted, I think it would make a bit of a mockery of the end of season finale on the PGA, as these top players wouldn't be able to play in the 1st Playoff. They are playing in Bedminster that weekend.

I can see why it is difficult for the PGAT and LIV to work in harmony, with the contracts LIV players are on. It is an easy thing to say, but you are ultimately ending the chances of any LIV players playing in at least 14 of the PGAT events in a season. And, if LIV aims to grow and have more events, this gets worse. And, even on weekens were there is no LIV event, it is more unlikely a LIV player will play on PGAT, because they'll want a certain number of free weeks each season to rest and to practice.
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Not at all. The implication (affirmed by the emoji) was that they could not understand the difference - judging by certain elements of the media, that's not an uncommon problem (especially with those affiliated to the tour). Ironically, you appear to have missed the point and then gone off at another tangent.

And seriously, if LIV did get a substantial proportion of the top players on tour, and they were allowed to play the PGA Tour, as with the majors, there is not a chance that there would be a scheduling clash with the playoffs (or The Players, or the handful of other prestige events).
 
Eddie Pepperell who was a big supporter of the PGAT / DPWT strategic alliance seems to be having his doubts now..

It was a strategic move alright but one to just stop Liv from strengthening its position in the golf ecosystem rather than a move to help the DPWT ??

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631934777623298048
 
Swango1980 said:
I was talking about pre LIV, before PGAT felt like they were "pushed" to change.

Begs the question, is any of it really good for the game? I guess it really depends on your individual point of view. Pre LIV the best players in the world pretty much played on one tour. They primarily played in the handful most lucrative events (outside Majors and WGCs) throughout the year, but had a decent amount of flexibility, hence there were a lot of events that you would still see a scattering of very good players. It even allowed other players to play on other Tours outside the PGAT. Perhaps Aussies would like to go and play the Oz Open, for example. Or some top players try and feature in the big DP World Tour events.

LIV comes along, attracts a few of the best players (but ideally it would want many more), and locks them into 14 events this year, outside the Majors. No flexibility during any of those weekends. The PGAT respond with elevated events, and locking their players in (although, wonder if that was necessary? The fact that prize money was elevated, I'd have thought that was a big enough carrot to attract the best players on the Tour?). Perhaps some will see it as a good thing, with a few more events with more of the top players. Although, these are spread over 2 tours which may be less appealing. It could be a bad thing because outside these events, we rarely see any of the best players at all (whereas before, you'd get a scattering of them at most events). We'll rarely see the best players going and playing the odd event elsewhere (especially if LIV ever get their wish in getting a decent amount of ranking points). And, maybe it slightly reduces the appeal of the Majors a little, given they are just another event with the best players (though, if you have LIV and PGAT players consistently qualifying and playing in majors, it might be a good thing as they'll be the only times you see the players pitted against each other)
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Fair enough. I still think wjemather's post that you replied to, and the one he responded to, were both about 'now' (2023). But yeah pre 2022, broadly agree. To your question, from the off I wasn't expecting LIV to be 'good for the game'. But then I didn't really feel the PGAT was 'good for the game' previously either. For now though we are stuck with them, and personally at times I've enjoyed watching both. Entertainment products at the end of the day.
Re your note on the majors, we obviously don't know the finer details but it looks like a PGAT player could play all the PGAT designated events and skip one of the majors and remain compliant. If so, the Open might be a risk for some US players with the travelling - hope not.
 
With all the shenanigans going on this week with the PGAT seemingly wanting to out-LIV LIV, I'm rapidly reaching the point at which I really don't care what they do and I, almost, wish the whole Professional Golf scene collapses it's arse and they end up playing the Derby course at the Belfry for a Big Mac and the taxi fare home..
 
Imurg said:
With all the shenanigans going on this week with the PGAT seemingly wanting to out-LIV LIV, I'm rapidly reaching the point at which I really don't care what they do and I, almost, wish the whole Professional Golf scene collapses it's arse and they end up playing the Derby course at the Belfry for a Big Mac and the taxi fare home..
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They'll be wearing shorts next, just wait and see
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1632477362494291970

Jack has spoken

“I don’t fault the guys who have gone to LIV,” said Nicklaus. “You have to make a choice, between playing golf for a short period time, for a lot of money, to put away for your family, or do you have the loyalty to play regular golf, then the senior tour and into retirement.

“It’s a quick hit and that’s their call, and I don’t fault that. But I don’t think it’s been good for the game of golf, the PGA Tour was forced to react and I don’t like the way we’ve automatically created a secondary tour within the main tour, we’ve created a second layer.

“But times change though, so you go with the times. The future of LIV will depend on how these legal cases are handled.

The prospect of naming the individual champion’s trophy after him was also on the table. However, after deliberation, he formally rejected the offer from LIV in May 2021.

“It’s money trying to buy the game,” added Nicklaus. “Somebody said they’re trying to buy the ability to sit on the veranda at Augusta National sipping Mint Julep with the membership and be accepted.

“It’s trying to gain acceptability within the mainframe of the game of golf.

“My lifetime earnings including both tours was about eight million or something like that – 10 guys make that now every year! There’s a lot to be said about today’s era, but I wouldn’t trade what I did – I loved it.

“The game of golf we played was because we loved the sport, we never played for money – money was a side thing that because we won on the golf course we could use our names to go and make a living – today the guys make a living on the golf course, which we didn’t.”
 
This Arnold Palmer Invitational is so good.

Exactly what the PGAT wanted from a designated event.

Lots of the big names near the top and gawd knows how many players with a chance to win..
 
The PGA tour showing that they don’t need the LIV players this week 👊👏
 
Just seen a LIV video which breaks down the team, individual and relegation elements of this season and going forward.

Seems LIV really are trying to tick boxes for OWGR purposes.
 
"The emergence of LIV has benefitted everyone that plays professional golf." - Rory McIlroy
 
I see that LIV are going to create a party hole in Australia with a hole surrounded by stands etc - all seems similar, what was it Norman said about copying 🤔
 
TheBigDraw said:
"The emergence of LIV has benefitted everyone that plays professional golf." - Rory McIlroy
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The thing is, it’s only going to benefit the main players on the PGA as well as LIV because of the money they are getting.
Apparently a lot of the PGA players never turned up for a pre players meeting, no doubt in disgust at the new format they’ve devised.
 
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