Swango1980
Well-known member
Thanks for clarifying that he DIDN'T say, or thinks, that LIV is great then.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Its not anymore.
They have introduced relegation and promotion from a lower tour. Anyone can play their way on to LIV now.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Got to love the irony that some posters on the bickering thread complaining how the forum is come straight back to the Liv thread to bicker.
D
Deleted member 21445
Guest
Yes and that criteria now says the PGAT marquee events will get far less points because its a limited field, thats the point that was being made by me anyway.
Events now get more points for the bigger the field on the premise their are more people to beat.
If they change that criteria to suit the PGAT limited field no cut exhibition tournaments then we know for sure the OWGR is corrupt.
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Deleted member 21445
Guest
I would prepare yourself for Liv being awarded points and not meeting all the criteria as it is now if reports are true from journo's that are far better connected than us.
The important question is not WILL THEY GET POINTS
Its HOW MANY POINTS will they get awarded.
Is it going to be enough against other tours for their players to move up the rankings ?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Which reports ? You have mentioned reports before and not really provided anything
Can you provide the link please.
Why would they get points if they don’t meet the criteria , that makes them even more of a mockery than they are becoming
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Will be interesting to see the actual dynamics of that - it was announced last year but there were a lot of caveats to it , certain players on contracts won’t get relegated , team “captains” won’t get relegated .
Team Captains I believe can also pick players to stay etc
Which tour are the players going to come from - the LIV tour is trying to be marketed as the tour full of top players , are they going to have 24 unknowns being promoted up , or will it be from a certain pool of players.
It’s a big year for them - the PGAT has started very strong this year , been some big events with some greats finish’s , I suspect most can’t even recall the LIV event or who even won.
This year they need to grab the attention beyond it being a gimmick a different , it needs the major sponsers and media deals soon or it’s going to fade away
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Deleted member 21445
Guest
Watch from 41.00 for one of the most well connected golf journalists (bottom right) talking about this.
Don't take this the wrong way Phil but I'm more inclined to take his informed words on the subject of Liv getting OWGR soon.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Firstly, like many things in this thread, people try and be so black and white about any little point. There is no doubt, that if the PGAT Limited field events were pretty much exactly the same as LIV events in any way you can think of, and if the criteria were immediately changed to suit the PGAT then your point is a valid one. However, LIV is different in many ways, so such a statement is overly simplistic.
If the criteria suddenly implied that a limited field has no negative influence on the points awarded, then I'd agree that would sound strange, as all we've heard is that bigger fields tend to get a better weighting as their are more people to beat. And, that makes complete sense. So, if that was completely wiped out, I'd question the logic in that.
However, how do players qualify for the elevated PGAT events (I don't actually know this, as I've not looked at the details)? Is it simply based on their ranking, and thus they need to perform well in preceding events to keep their ranking at a certain level? Do tournament wins allow them to qualify? Are their qualifying events? Is it different depending on the elevated event? I'm assuming no players sign a contract that guarantees they will be in all these events. Rather, they need to commit to all but one of them, but if they start playing poorly and fail to qualify, then they are not in anyway? That is fundamentally different to LIV, where most players are under contract to play, regardless of how rubbish they may be playing. Only a few spots are open for players to actually qualify.
There is no doubt that the PGAT reacting to LIV in this way will heap even more pressure on OWGR. This is good news to LIV, of course. Because if OWGR have their hand forced even more so to award ranking points for such events, then it knocks down at least one barrier that LIV have been facing. But, it doesn't necessarily knock down all the barriers.
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
Why ? Who is he and what link does he have to the inner workings of the Ranking Panel
Again it’s not really facts it’s more opinion from journalists.
Recently a new tour gained points - after waiting 16 months since application and it had to fulfil the main criteria - cuts , qualifying etc
Why would LIV be able to bypass that ?
Swango1980
Well-known member
More of a general point here. But, be wary of trusting journalists. If anyone has a skill of twisting facts to come to a completely bogus conclusion, it is most journalists. After all, it will generally benefit their career if they get people talking. Unlike people in here, who really have nothing to gain either way. They are just expressing their opinion based on their interpretation of everything they see in the media. You may heavily trust this journalist and not others, while other people may put more weight the other way.
GB72
Money List Winner
It would be naive to think that both sides did not have a number of journalists in their back pocket. Those press passes, player interviews and press junkets do not come for free.
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Deleted member 21445
Guest
Im really surprised you dont know who he is TBH as he has played a big part in the whole Liv saga.
Alan Shipnuck is one of the most long serving golf journalists in the press room.
Wrote the Phil Mickleson book that kicked this whole thing off.
Is currently writing another book on the PGAT V Liv battle and talking to all protagonists including people on OWGR
I choose to give more credence to his opinion than yours given his job and contacts.
If you dont then thats absolutely fine.
We will know the answer soon enough..
He said on a later podcast that OWGR were telling him the decision is now being made around July.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Ive only watched one short video on it - ill try and find it and post a link! I think most players not under contract would be at risk. They don't state that the captains are exempt but you'd assume they are!
As for what tour they're on, not sure exactly either but the vid explains all I know atm!
doublebogey7
Head Pro
As far as I understand it from their press releases, that does not start until next season and a maximum of four players can be promoted/relegated at the end of this season. So no points for this season, by which time mnealrly all will have dropped out of the top 100, so points available will be similar to the Korn Ferry tour. That's assuming the OWGR deems 4 qualifying spots to be sufficient, which I doubt.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Well it starts at the end of this season/ start of next yes, they need to play their 14 events to know whos going down.
4 spots does feel rather token gesture like - but if it ticks a box how can it be argued against?
As for OWGR - it'll all get sorted one way or another I'm sure, LIV are ticking all the boxes. I simply don't have the answers about how they rank golfers going forward - but I don't think anyone does!
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Yes in his later statement he said merely that a decision was likley to be made on July. Anybody with just a little understandoing of the OWGR would expect just that, given that would be 12 months since they submitted their application. He also didn't say whether the that decision would be positive or otherwise. Anybody who trusts what anyone in the media predicts understands very little about how the media works.
Swango1980
Well-known member
You almost have an argument in that short sentence. If it is simply seen as a tick boxing exercise, then the argument can be: is that tick truly meeting the intention of this particular criteria, or is it trying to find a shortcut to getting around the obstacle? The argument starts there, for those that feel is it simply a shortcut / loophole to try and get around bigger issue.
For example, if half way cuts were deemed to be an important issue for standard events, if a tour applied a cut to only the person in last place at half way, would that be suitable ticking the box to meet the criteria, or would it be deemed unacceptable as only one person gets cut at halfway?
I suspect if these issues are still considered important going forwards, they will be rewritten to add clarity in what the actual requirements are.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Id say its too hard to say one way or another!
I actually think the concept of relegation is a great addition for LIV as they may carry some real dead wood/ underperforming players without it!
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Deleted member 15344
Guest
So he is still just a journalist though. He is not part of the inner workings of the OWGR and is in all probability making guesses in regards what will happen.
You can only look at what’s happened with the last tour that applied for Ranking points , the timings and what that tour had to put in place to gain them
LIV have tried multiple ways to circumvent the rules by jumping into bed with Mena for example and it’s not worked.
Yeah that’s the same thing I have seen
Not much detail and I guess that’s where the devil is
