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LIV Golf

Mel Smooth said:
Another numpty that missed the essence of the post - which was if LIV GROWS on the same scale as the IPL, it will very much become self sustainable.
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The ten (originally 8) teams in IPL are due to play this year 74 events this year, each with about 60K spectators! If you think LIV is going to grow to 74 events (over 1 per week) you've been in the 19th hole too long! As I posted earlier, a ridiculous comparison!

FWIW, There have been at least 3 other IPL style leagues attempted that have failed! The IPL is successful primarily because it's in cricket-obsessed India! LIV has no such benefit!
 
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MiurasFan said:
The ten (originally 8) teams in IPL are due to play this year 74 events this year, each with about 60K spectators! If you think LIV is going to grow to 74 events (over 1 per week) you've been in the 19th hole too long! As I posted earlier, a ridiculous comparison!
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Mate, a blind man on a galloping horse can see I'm talking about economic growth of the product, not the actual amount of golf and events that they are going to play.
 
Mel Smooth said:
Mate, a blind man on a galloping horse can see I'm talking about economic growth of the product, not the actual amount of golf and events that they are going to play.
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Except you haven't explained HOW that economic growth would happen! Even franchising the teams would not cover the $25M prize money per tournament!
Oh! And increasing the number of events, through more teams and events, was a major part of how the IPL grew!

Your whatiffery (LIV economic growth same rate as IPL) is as likely as scoring 18 eagles a round!

Oh, and as Doublebogey stated, the original, private, Indian One Day league (ICL) failed! ICL was not recognised by the Indian Cricket authority (seem familiar?)! It was only when the 'proper' recognised cricket authorities got involved - as IPL - that it took off with subsequent increase to number of teams and events.
 
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MiurasFan said:
Except you haven't explained HOW that economic growth would happen! Even franchising the teams would not cover the $25M prize money per tournament!
Oh! And increasing the number of events, through more teams and events, was a major part of how the IPL grew!

Your whatiffery (LIV economic growth same rate as IPL) is as likely as scoring 18 eagles a round!

Oh, and as Doublebogey stated, the original, private, Indian One Day league (ICL) failed! ICL was not recognised by the Indian Cricket authority (seem familiar?)! It was only when the 'proper' recognised cricket authorities got involved - as IPL - that it took off with subsequent increase to number of teams and events.
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I started typing out a lengthy reply to this, and to be frank, couldn't be arsed.

Essentially if LIV pick up fans at a younger age, their product grows. If they make something more exciting than existing golf offers, their product grows. If there is global appeal, their product grows, if the prize money is set at a level that attracts the better players, their product grows. Make no mistake, EVERY golfer out there would be braying on Greg Normans door if they weren't being coerced by the prospect of being banned from the PGAT or DPWT.

And who are the recognised golfing authorities? It's not the PGAT, DPWT, Asian Tour etc.... They just organise events, just like LIV.
 
This thread is a glorious view on the human condition.

Literally proves Einstein's definition of insanity.

Keep it up lads, soon you'll be proven right and everyone will turn to your point of view - whatever one that is.....
 
Mel Smooth said:
I started typing out a lengthy reply to this, and to be frank, couldn't be arsed.

Essentially if LIV pick up fans at a younger age, their product grows. If they make something more exciting than existing golf offers, their product grows. If there is global appeal, their product grows, if the prize money is set at a level that attracts the better players, their product grows. Make no mistake, EVERY golfer out there would be braying on Greg Normans door if they weren't being coerced by the prospect of being banned from the PGAT or DPWT.

And who are the recognised golfing authorities? It's not the PGAT, DPWT, Asian Tour etc.... They just organise events, just like LIV.
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Well Frank, that was still fairly lengthy and full of 'if's!
FWIW, I have no issue with the existence of LIV, though I'm not keen on some of its presentation. More decent quality tournament golf to watch is always welcome and it has actually increased regular PGAT prize money, though where that's coming from is unclear. I'm sure there'll be a few more converts announced before the Orlando event. I can't imagine it getting OWGR points in its present form, purely because it doesn't comply with the standard, and sensible, criteria required to do so. I can't imagine LIV changing format simply to gain OWGR points. I don't believe the lack of points is actually a real issue though and it gives LIV something to gripe publicly about to maintain its presence in news. As for Golf Authorities, USGA and R&A are the big ones.
 
I refer everyone to a previous post of mine about a zillion posts ago regarding a mythical creature called the Oozlem Bird

It flies round and round in ever decreasing circles until it finally disappears up its own backside.

I’ll just leave that thought with you all
No need to thank me 👍
 
MiurasFan said:
LIV is an entirely different model to existing tours, so direct comparison isn't valid! It'll continue to be around while PIF continues to fund it - but would be unsustainable without it! Any funds raised through things like team franchising would be fairly token compared to the prize money on offer.
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I'm sorry but this comparison is absolutely valid - and I have provided evidence.

I have provided a full breakdown of the prize money, a concept of sponsorship that may be explored and I've pointed out where the funding gap could be - its not signing praises of LIV.

The model of gaining sponsors for events etc. is established across every professional sport, I have used the PGA tour as my cross reference as its the established market leading tour that LIV wish to compete with.
 
Bdill93 said:
I'm sorry but this comparison is absolutely valid - and I have provided evidence.

I have provided a full breakdown of the prize money, a concept of sponsorship that may be explored and I've pointed out where the funding gap could be - its not signing praises of LIV.

The model of gaining sponsors for events etc. is established across every professional sport, I have used the PGA tour as my cross reference as its the established market leading tour that LIV wish to compete with.
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It’s Foxholer in yet another guise mate. He’d argue black was white, and then when you proved it wasn’t, with facts, tell you you’re talking rubbish. ;-)
 
MiurasFan said:
LIV is an entirely different model to existing tours, so direct comparison isn't valid! It'll continue to be around while PIF continues to fund it - but would be unsustainable without it! Any funds raised through things like team franchising would be fairly token compared to the prize money on offer.
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Agree LIV is a different model.
Its weakness isnt diference in itself.

But firstly, that it is a poor model. Limited field, closed-ish shop, teams fakeness, and LOUDNESS, That is not a winning formula, or solving any issues the golf watching public has with the existing tours.

And secondly, unlike IPL for example, an established platform for the worlds best golfers already exist. There wasnt a void to fill. Only opposition to poach from. Had they signed the worlds top 50, it would have had a chance. But for a variety of reasons it has singularly failed to attract a critical mass of the worlds top golfer to make limited field work. Money does not seem to have done the trick there.

Between the two, lies its failure, at least in achieving its original goal. It can still have a role as a pre-champions tour, touring the world, with most of its field past their prime. There is a limited audience for that.
 
Mel Smooth said:
It’s Foxholer in yet another guise mate. He’d argue black was white, and then when you proved it wasn’t, with facts, tell you you’re talking rubbish. ;-)
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Do you not think the ICL is a more appropriate comparison?

It was a private funded league , no backing from other areas within the sport , money given to players to play and move across to them , other working leagues etc putting bans in etc

Once players released they would only play in the ICL they started to leave

So if no ranking points , no access to PGAT and ET - how many other players will look to leave the established tours and how many of the younger ones may look to move back due to no access to majors and Ryder cups etc

The IPL is prob more aligned to what Woods and Rory are doing or maybe the WGCs etc - leagues and tours organised by the established tours that have links to both main tours
 
Backsticks said:
Agree LIV is a different model.
Its weakness isnt diference in itself.

But firstly, that it is a poor model. Limited field, closed-ish shop, teams fakeness, and LOUDNESS, That is not a winning formula, or solving any issues the golf watching public has with the existing tours.

And secondly, unlike IPL for example, an established platform for the worlds best golfers already exist. There wasnt a void to fill. Only opposition to poach from. Had they signed the worlds top 50, it would have had a chance. But for a variety of reasons it has singularly failed to attract a critical mass of the worlds top golfer to make limited field work. Money does not seem to have done the trick there.

Between the two, lies its failure, at least in achieving its original goal. It can still have a role as a pre-champions tour, touring the world, with most of its field past their prime. There is a limited audience for that.
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They aren't trying to solve issues for the current watching public though, its an entirely new model aimed at bringing in younger fans predominantly. The generation that buy PRIME for £9 a bottle because they love a celebrity that have no patience at all and get bored after 10 seconds unless something changes.

That's exactly how LIV is broadcast - its pretty clear to see who they are marketing themselves towards.

The players they've signed are all "Characters" you can love or hate.

I don't think it'll ever be the highest level of golf, maybe the third highest below Majors and the PGA tour events. But I firmly believe there is a market for it.

If there wasn't this market gap, why would Rory and Tiger be doing this simulator golf thing? It'll appeal to the same type of people I'm sure - plus fans of the players competing. Rory will cause a huge attraction to the majority of golf fans in the UK - but Cam Smith is a huge attraction to the Aussie's etc..
 
Was listening to Rick shiels podcast this morning

He's seen the full swing documentary already (early access) said the Liv players were more honest about their reasons for going

Money and time off

They came across better apparently
 
Backsticks said:
Agree LIV is a different model.
Its weakness isnt diference in itself.

But firstly, that it is a poor model. Limited field, closed-ish shop, teams fakeness, and LOUDNESS, That is not a winning formula, or solving any issues the golf watching public has with the existing tours

And secondly, unlike IPL for example, an established platform for the worlds best golfers already exist. There wasnt a void to fill. Only opposition to poach from. Had they signed the worlds top 50, it would have had a chance. But for a variety of reasons it has singularly failed to attract a critical mass of the worlds top golfer to make limited field work. Money does not seem to have done the trick there.

Between the two, lies its failure, at least in achieving its original goal. It can still have a role as a pre-champions tour, touring the world, with most of its field past their prime. There is a limited audience for that.
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I'm not convinced it's a 'poor model', though it has weaknesses when compared to existing tours. It really depends what its owners want, or wanted, to achieve! Until that is known, deeming it a failure is pretty dodgy!
 
pauljames87 said:
Was listening to Rick shiels podcast this morning

He's seen the full swing documentary already (early access) said the Liv players were more honest about their reasons for going

Money and time off

They came across better apparently
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Queue multiple posts now asking why they are fighting their DPWT bans ;-)
 
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