LIV Golf

[Deleted member 15344]

If they move in 2023, they'll accumulate enough points to gain entry to the majors in 2024.

That's (apparently) the reason why.
It would certainly make sense.

I’m guessing you mean the majors in 2023

Entry for Masters 2023 via ranking points is top 50 at 31 Dec 2022 and then end of March 2023

Open is around June ranking

US Open is around May

same for US PGA

By the time the majors qualifying for 2024 comes around and if LIV don’t have points then they drop

But how does that stop the likes of Rahm and Matsuyama from joining ( both claimed to be ) when they have exemptions through to 2025 and 2026 ?

 

[Mel Smooth]

I’m guessing you mean the majors in 2023

Entry for Masters 2023 via ranking points is top 50 at 31 Dec 2022 and then end of March 2023

Open is around June ranking

US Open is around May

same for US PGA

By the time the majors qualifying for 2024 comes around and if LIV don’t have points then they drop

But how does that stop the likes of Rahm and Matsuyama from joining ( both claimed to be ) when they have exemptions through to 2025 and 2026 ?

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/...dt3AfnzeFt_7S3KzT8adIdQ9AE_j7s3pbyzwHnXb7_cQE

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.golfmagic.com/liv-golf/...dt3AfnzeFt_7S3KzT8adIdQ9AE_j7s3pbyzwHnXb7_cQE

They need to do their maths better , it doesn’t take much for the players rankings to drop - it may even happen if they get some level of points with LIV

But as I said - how is that stopping the likes of Rahm and the always rumoured Matsuyama?

 

[Mel Smooth]

They need to do their maths better , it doesn’t take much for the players rankings to drop - it may even happen if they get some level of points with LIV

But as I said - how is that stopping the likes of Rahm and the always rumoured Matsuyama?

It's not stopping Rahm and Matsuyama - Rahm was rumoured briefly, and Matsuyama looked like he was interested but decided not to move, yet.

As for OWGR points, the only place you can now accumulate enough to get up the rankings is in America, which is great for the PGA Tour right?, except it means that the likes of the future Tom Kim's etc are now increasingly likely to be stuck on their own tours - for longer. Now obviously this wouldn't be a problem, if there wasn't another series with strong links to that area now in place.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It's not stopping Rahm and Matsuyama - Rahm was rumoured briefly, and Matsuyama looked like he was interested but decided not to move, yet.

As for OWGR points, the only place you can now accumulate enough to get up the rankings is in America, which is great for the PGA Tour right?, except it means that the likes of the future Tom Kim's etc are now increasingly likely to be stuck on their own tours - for longer. Now obviously this wouldn't be a problem, if there wasn't another series with strong links to that area now in place.

Surely Tom Kim has shown them how they can all move forward ?

Play well on home tournaments and money list which gave him entry into Scottish Open and also The Open

He did well in the The Open which gave him entry into a PGAT event - he continued to play well gaining his tour card , then he won to give him an exemption for a number of years , he ended up in the Presidents Cup and became one of the stars of the week and the name on everyone’s lips

So how is that them being “stuck” ?

It shows that if you play well you get the rewards through the sport

he will now along with the likes of KH Lee and Si Woo inspire a generation of golfers by showcasing themselves at the highest level

 

[Mel Smooth]

Surely Tom Kim has shown them how they can all move forward ?

Play well on home tournaments and money list which gave him entry into Scottish Open and also The Open

He did well in the The Open which gave him entry into a PGAT event - he continued to play well gaining his tour card , then he won to give him an exemption for a number of years , he ended up in the Presidents Cup and became one of the stars of the week and the name on everyone’s lips

So how is that them being “stuck” ?

It shows that if you play well you get the rewards through the sport

he will now along with the likes of KH Lee and Si Woo inspire a generation of golfers by showcasing themselves at the highest level

Correct, he'll inspire a generation of Asian golfers, who will be picked up through the agreements with LIV on the Asian Tour, unless of course, the PGA Tour can cherry pick the ones they think will be succesful. Of course, what the PGA Tour can't do is start handing out spots to players from all over the world, because that would completely undermine the credibility of the OWGR - wouldn't it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Correct, he'll inspire a generation of Asian golfers, who will be picked up through the agreements with LIV on the Asian Tour, unless of course, the PGA Tour can cherry pick the ones they think will be succesful. Of course, what the PGA Tour can't do is start handing out spots to players from all over the world, because that would completely undermine the credibility of the OWGR - wouldn't it?

Why will they go to LIV ?‍ , surely if they are inspired by Kim the last place they will go is LIV ?

Kim has shown what players can do if they perform well , Kim earned his spot - and there are multiple spots in a number of PGAT events given to players who perform well in events from around the world. How does that undermine the World Rankings ? There are also many other ways for a player to qualify for events on many of the tours

 

[Mel Smooth]

Why will they go to LIV ?‍ , surely if they are inspired by Kim the last place they will go is LIV ?

Kim has shown what players can do if they perform well , Kim earned his spot - and there are multiple spots in a number of PGAT events given to players who perform well in events from around the world. How does that undermine the World Rankings ? There are also many other ways for a player to qualify for events on many of the tours

But the players outside of the US won't even get on the radar based on OWGR points, so they'll need to win events, and if that happens to be on the Asian Tour, there is a working relationship between the Asian Tour and LIV as there is between the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour. Some may go to the PGA, some may go to the LIV series, but they wont all go to the PGA Tour, and that means that the PGA Tour will potentially further miss out on some top players. Are the PGA Tour going to take a punt on every Asian Tour (or any other tour for that matter) winner? They simply can't and some of those winners will have abysmal OWGR rankings, thanks to the new system.

Why will they go to LIV? More guaranteed money, still able to compete on their home tours, less time away from home - there are legitimate reasons - even though you will deny them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But the players outside of the US won't even get on the radar based on OWGR points, so they'll need to win events, and if that happens to be on the Asian Tour, there is a working relationship between the Asian Tour and LIV as there is between the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour. Some may go to the PGA, some may go to the LIV series, but they wont all go to the PGA Tour, and that means that the PGA Tour will potentially further miss out on some top players. Are the PGA Tour going to take a punt on every Asian Tour (or any other tour for that matter) winner? They simply can't and some of those winners will have abysmal OWGR rankings, thanks to the new system.

Kim didn’t get invites to ET and PGA events based on world rankings ?‍

Have you even bothered to look and see what invites the players get when they do well on home tours and it’s got sweet FA to do with World Ranking points

Winners of money lists , various tournaments, high finishes in events and also Co sanctioned events can help players get into - majors and other ET or PGA events

It doesn’t matter what their world ranking is if they finish in a spot that gives them an invite to various events - stop being fixated on ranking points. There are so many other ways to get into tournaments than just ranking points.

Why will they go to LIV? More guaranteed money, still able to compete on their home tours, less time away from home - there are legitimate reasons - even though you will deny them.

More guaranteed money - yes

Less time away from home - ? aren’t most of the LIV events based in the US ? That’s going to be a heck of a lot of travel going back and forth between the LIV events and their home tour is it not ?

 

[BubbaP]

See the "bots" have been busy on here tonight ??

Mel IMO LIV is very weak on qualification currently. Yes the PGAT is ultimately geared to aid US success but the pathways do exist and it remains the 'safe' option for most

Phil IMO post 7182 just a rehash of the July statement, so a case of 'nothing (new) to see here', for me

 

[Deleted member 21445]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574434890598203395

So new signings for Liv are coming from the PGAT but just not going to be announced till early 2023..

The PGAT needs to stop the flow of players making Liv stronger not just have it delayed

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So new signings for Liv are coming from the PGAT but just not going to be announced till early 2023..

The PGAT needs to stop the flow of players making Liv stronger not just have it delayed

When it comes down to the amount of money being “guaranteed” to the players then it’s hard for the PGAT to stop players leaving.

What can the PGAT actually do ? They aren’t going to counter offer and give players guaranteed money and there is already a lot of money on offer for the players

 

[Bdill93]

When it comes down to the amount of money being “guaranteed” to the players then it’s hard for the PGAT to stop players leaving.

What can the PGAT actually do ? They aren’t going to counter offer and give players guaranteed money and there is already a lot of money on offer for the players

They could allow their players to play on both tours..... Because they all absolutely would

 

[r0wly86]

They could allow their players to play on both tours..... Because they all absolutely would

That's a lot of playing

Players on the LIV Tour HAVE to play all 14 events, to keep your PGA Tour Card they would have to play 15 events across the years. That would mean 29 weeks of playing on both tours. Also bearing in mind that some of the LIV events will be at the same time as the bigger PGAT tournaments, then what. By contract the players have to play all LIV events, so the PGA would have to allow them to not play in flagship events so they can play LIV events.

Add in the 4 majors, that is 33 weeks of the year, that doesn't leave a lot of time for rescheduling.

 

[Bdill93]

That's a lot of playing

Players on the LIV Tour HAVE to play all 14 events, to keep your PGA Tour Card they would have to play 15 events across the years. That would mean 29 weeks of playing on both tours. Also bearing in mind that some of the LIV events will be at the same time as the bigger PGAT tournaments, then what. By contract the players have to play all LIV events, so the PGA would have to allow them to not play in flagship events so they can play LIV events.

Add in the 4 majors, that is 33 weeks of the year, that doesn't leave a lot of time for rescheduling.

Quite literally everything can be changed though. In such a short frame of time too

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They could allow their players to play on both tours..... Because they all absolutely would

Why would they do that when they would then see a flood of their best players leaving ?

Who would that benefit ? Certainly wouldn’t be the PGAT

 

[r0wly86]

Quite literally everything can be changed though. In such a short frame of time too

Can it, that would require changing all contracts, unlikely this can be done unilaterally, so will require all parties to agree to the changes (i.e. it is a contractual stipulation in LIV that they play all events) this is no easy business as this would open up renegotiations on pretty much every matter.

Also what do the tours get out of it. LIV have spent billions of dollars attracting the players and getting set up, they want their players to play in every event, they won't want them going onto the PGAT, as far they are concerned the players are now their intellectual property, if LIV do want to do that chances are they would want some of the money back from the players, and would the players want to stay if that was the case.

what do the PGAT get out of the agreement, essentially saying it's okay to leave the tour for a rival, as you still get to play on the PGAT win money and get ranking points that could go to a loyal member.

Frankly the two tours are pulling in opposite directions, by their nature they have to be mutually exclusive

 

[GB72]

Why would they do that when they would then see a flood of their best players leaving ?

Who would that benefit ? Certainly wouldn’t be the PGAT

Surely that is the whole point of them playing in both though, it would see exactly nobody would leave as they would play on both tours. A negotiated schedule with the PGA Tour stipulating the events they want certain golfers at, the PGA Tour get full fields at the events they want, LIV gets its tournaments with top fields, the whole image of golf increases and we move away from the path of mutually assured destruction that we are on at the moment. I am not seeing many downsides there.

 

[r0wly86]

Surely that is the whole point of them playing in both though, it would see exactly nobody would leave as they would play on both tours. A negotiated schedule with the PGA Tour stipulating the events they want certain golfers at, the PGA Tour get full fields at the events they want, LIV gets its tournaments with top fields, the whole image of golf increases and we move away from the path of mutually assured destruction that we are on at the moment. I am not seeing many downsides there.

surely LIV would then want their money back, I doubt they would pay players $100m if they are playing on the PGAT as much as LIV

 

[Mel Smooth]

surely LIV would then want their money back, I doubt they would pay players $100m if they are playing on the PGAT as much as LIV

They literally had that scenario in mind, the LIV calendar is such that it doesn’t tread on the toes of the PGA tour.

There has been nothing from LIV at all, to stipulate players can’t play on an other tour.