LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

LIV players suing the PGAT to be allowed to play in their events is a strange one for me. What happens if PGAT players sue LIV to be able to play in their events? If, legally, there is a reason to allow LIV players to play on the PGAT then surely the reverse equally applies and PGAT players should be allowed to play in LIV events. And if PGAT players are allowed to play in the LIV events then surely they will need to be reimbursed to the same level as others playing in the same events.

Thing is, this could have been the plan - a two way street of top players switching between the PGA and LIV series, to the benefit of all parties - We know that GN definitely approched both the PGA Tours and DPWT to try and work something out. With the benefit of hindsight, or foresight depending on where you are on the whole thing, it seems to me that something along those lines might have been a pretty good solution.

 

[Backsticks]

Mr. Norman goes to Washington.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...iv-golf-series-saudi-arabia-us-congress-visit


One legal expert interviewed by the Guardian said that business ventures that are owned by foreign governments do sometimes escape scrutiny, but not when they are owned by a nation’s sovereign wealth fund, and not when there are legitimate questions about whether the business also has public relations goals involving the country’s image abroad.
“I think there are a lot of signs that LIV is not a typical business interest. I think there are a lot of reasons for the DoJ to potentially kick tires on this. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did,” said Matt Sanderson, a lawyer at Caplin & Drysdale who specialises in Fara cases. Sanderson said it was also unclear whether LIV intended to make a profit in the long run, raising further questions about its intentions.

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Adam Scott

Playing in the next Liv Event in Bangkok

Yes Or No?

 

[Backsticks]

Thing is, this could have been the plan - a two way street of top players switching between the PGA and LIV series, to the benefit of all parties - We know that GN definitely approched both the PGA Tours and DPWT to try and work something out. With the benefit of hindsight, or foresight depending on where you are on the whole thing, it seems to me that something along those lines might have been a pretty good solution.

Solution, to what ?

 

[BubbaP]

Adam Scott

Playing in the next Liv Event in Bangkok

Yes Or No?

I'd go No.
But who knows..

 

[Beezerk]

I'd go No.
But who knows..

He’s past it so a big yes from me ?

 

[BubbaP]

.....

My own take is I hope the PGA Tour, DP World Tour, the majors and broadcasters shun them. It might cause chaos for a year or two but they'll start crawling back and cancelling the LIV contracts. No one is irreplaceable and as long as they're falling out of the world rankings, getting less coverage and not in the majors no one will care about them.

Re the bit above, isn't that what has been happening since June ? (If we restrict broadcasters to USA & UK).

The majors remain a bit of an unknown. The Masters position isn't clear. The 2 opens in 2022 happened after it started but hadn't really had time to digest/react.

What you outline could still happen. Just feels to me that with each week that passes it becomes less likely.
Is also more difficult to control internet coverage, and it looks as though a number were included due to their 'net presence.

 

[Imurg]

You're obviously well entitled to your opinion.
On this well used point -
"They joined to play less for more dollar"

To clarify, what % of players actually said this?

Patrick Reed for 1.
Now he's signed up for the Dunhill he's playing 7 weeks in a row.....Boston LIV, PGA, Chicago LIV, French, Dunhill and then straight to the far East for a couple of Asian Tour events as per his LIV contract.....
Busy boy for someone who wants to spend less time out on Tour and more time at home....

 

[ExRabbit]

Patrick Reed for 1.
Now he's signed up for the Dunhill he's playing 7 weeks in a row.....Chicago LIV, PGA, Italian, French, Dunhill and then straight to the far East for a couple of Asian Tour events as per his LIV contract.....
Busy boy for someone who wants to spend less time out on Tour and more time at home....

Not taking any sides here - but wasn't Reed getting a lot of credit for being an American PGAT player who played all over the world not so long ago? In Europe a lot at least.

 

[Imurg]

Not taking any sides here - but wasn't Reed getting a lot of credit for being an American PGAT player who played all over the world not so long ago? In Europe a lot at least.

Absolutely..a World Player before LIV
But he said recently that the PGAT forced him to not be around when his kids went to school and miss them coming home in the afternoon and is deeply saddened by only getting iPad time with his kids...and yet he's playing 7 weeks on the bounce....

 

[Deleted member 21445]

Absolutely..a World Player before LIV
But he said recently that the PGAT forced him to not be around when his kids went to school and miss them coming home in the afternoon and is deeply saddened by only getting iPad time with his kids...and yet he's playing 7 weeks on the bounce....

I think he may be chasing OGWR points right now to try and maintain his ranking while they wait for the decision on Liv events OGWR points.

If Liv events were receiving points he probably wouldn't be playing 7 weeks in a row I'm guessing.

A situation of their own making of course but a possible reason for 7 weeks on the bounce no less..

 

[Imurg]

I think he may be chasing OGWR points right now to try and maintain his ranking while they wait for the decision on Liv events OGWR points.

If Liv events were receiving points he probably wouldn't be playing 7 weeks in a row I'm guessing.

A situation of their own making of course but a possible reason for 7 weeks on the bounce no less..

I think it's absolutely the reason...
It does give the impression that GN told them all that ranking points would be on offer and is failing to deliver...and unless LIV change their format to take in the OWGR criteria ..they're not going to..so they'll all be chasing the points.
And that, I suspect, is not what the players expected...

 

[Swango1980]

I think it's absolutely the reason...
It does give the impression that GN told them all that ranking points would be on offer and is failing to deliver...and unless LIV change their format to take in the OWGR criteria ..they're not going to..so they'll all be chasing the points.
And that, I suspect, is not what the players expected...

These guys are professional golfers. Some of the most elite, well known golfers in the world. I'd be embarrassed for them if they were naive enough to simply take GN word for anything, unless it was solely related to LIV. As world ranking points are not controlled by LIV, but an outside body, surely they'd have done their due diligence and contacted the appropriate people as ask them to confirm? If they didn't, that is complete lack of professionalism.

Even if they thought world ranking points would be on offer, they must have realised that they'd probably be minimal due to the small field and lack of quality? I mean, the poorer players might have been positive about it, but not the handful of top players.

They had time to weigh up pros and cons. It is why most of them didn't just immediately sign up without hesitation. The pros were clearly the money. Playing less golf was also one, I can see characters like DJ liking that. The cons would clearly have been alienation from the PGA Tour (the PGA were clear on this), and clearly issues with World Ranking points. I'm sure we have been chatting about this for months, so I'm sure it must have been known to professional.players and their representatives.

I agree with a lot of you, that I'm not bothered players joining LIV for the cash and playing less golf. But, they need to accept the consequences. If they have complete faith that LIV is great for golf and it is going to grow the game, they really have nothing to worry about. No need to fight and complain. They'll be pioneers, and LIV will start to naturally get ranking points as it becomes the amazing tour they tell.us it is.

 

[BubbaP]

Patrick Reed for 1.
Now he's signed up for the Dunhill he's playing 7 weeks in a row.....Boston LIV, PGA, Chicago LIV, French, Dunhill and then straight to the far East for a couple of Asian Tour events as per his LIV contract.....
Busy boy for someone who wants to spend less time out on Tour and more time at home....

Thanks, yes he's the one I recalled also.
Certainly think he deserves the ribbing etc. for that. It will follow him around.
Reminds me of those footballers who each time they switch club kiss the badge and say it's the one they supported as a child ?

So going for 2% of players said they wanted to play less then?

 

[Slab]

Why am I seeing comments where the inference is that no LIV player has (or deserves) any right of appeal to any sanction or punishment meted out to them. I thought we done this already

 

[BubbaP]

Mr. Norman goes to Washington.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...iv-golf-series-saudi-arabia-us-congress-visit


One legal expert interviewed by the Guardian said that business ventures that are owned by foreign governments do sometimes escape scrutiny, but not when they are owned by a nation’s sovereign wealth fund, and not when there are legitimate questions about whether the business also has public relations goals involving the country’s image abroad.
“I think there are a lot of signs that LIV is not a typical business interest. I think there are a lot of reasons for the DoJ to potentially kick tires on this. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did,” said Matt Sanderson, a lawyer at Caplin & Drysdale who specialises in Fara cases. Sanderson said it was also unclear whether LIV intended to make a profit in the long run, raising further questions about its intentions.

When history looks back this may be viewed as another of GN's mistakes.
A high number of US Americans hold the principle of free competition, and capitalism highly. But also a high number of US Americans are very patriotic.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Twitter is quite amusing right now

All the LiV bots are going mental about the Presidents Cup

Complaining about none of the LiV players there , complaining about commercials and going mad at the PGAT

all a bit confusing - why are they bothered ? They have no interest in the PGAT who are the root of all evil

They are just lack the self awareness of the reasons why the LiV players aren’t playing and just like Mel all the blame is on the PGAT and of course LIV have done nothing wrong

It will be amazing the day one of them actually states - Yes we are in this situation because of the actions of LIV

and they also don’t seem to be aware that commercials are needed for events when they aren’t backed by a bottomless pit of money.

 

[Beezerk]

Twitter is quite amusing right now

All the LiV bots are going mental about the Presidents Cup

Complaining about none of the LiV players there , complaining about commercials and going mad at the PGAT

all a bit confusing - why are they bothered ? They have no interest in the PGAT who are the root of all evil

They are just lack the self awareness of the reasons why the LiV players aren’t playing and just like Mel all the blame is on the PGAT and of course LIV have done nothing wrong

It will be amazing the day one of them actually states - Yes we are in this situation because of the actions of LIV

and they also don’t seem to be aware that commercials are needed for events when they aren’t backed by a bottomless pit of money.

Mate, you need to lay off Twitter for a while, it ain’t good for you.
Personal digs within you’re posts aren’t in the spirit of the forum imo ?

 

[Jacko_G]

Patrick Reed for 1.
Now he's signed up for the Dunhill he's playing 7 weeks in a row.....Boston LIV, PGA, Chicago LIV, French, Dunhill and then straight to the far East for a couple of Asian Tour events as per his LIV contract.....
Busy boy for someone who wants to spend less time out on Tour and more time at home....

To be fair to Reed he has been one of the few PGA players (not homegrown) has been a regular supporter of the European Tour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Mate, you need to lay off Twitter for a while, it ain’t good for you.
Personal digs within you’re posts aren’t in the spirit of the forum imo ?

Twitter is funny , lots of knots being tied , a good laugh with my mate on there. Also allows my stalker to stay hidden then report back ?

and no Personal dig was made ?‍ Mel does absolve all blame of the division and issues away from LIV.

To be fair to Reed he has been one of the few PGA players (not homegrown) has been a regular supporter of the European Tour.

Reed has played a lot more ET events than others , he also did state clearly that going to LIV was going to allow him to spend more time at home ?‍

But it can filed alongside the players who said it’s not about the money etc when everyone knows the reason they moved is because of the money on offer for the amount of golf they will play.

At least some of the players have been upfront and honest about it