LIV Golf

[Deleted member 21445]

An excellent unbiased balanced well researched article on Liv Golf's challenges to get OWGR points by The Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/09/17/golf-rankings-liv-owgr/

 

[Backsticks]

OWGR are taking a hit in credibility too, and so its in their interest to sort it. The majors will find their own way around it if the rankings dont. But the rankings will be rendered meaningless if they dont adapt too. Smith slipping to 100 ot whatever in a years time would just make them look stupid.

They have a little time to consider how to handle it for three reasons : we are in the quiet season ; the key is the top 20 or 30, and only DJ and Smith are unarguably of that ranking; and its still early, and the top defectors havent slipped too far.
But they need a solution by the new year.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

OWGR are taking a hit in credibility too, and so its in their interest to sort it. The majors will find their own way around it if the rankings dont. But the rankings will be rendered meaningless if they dont. Smith slipping to 100 ot whatever in a years time would just make them look stupid.

They have a little time to consider how to handle it for three reasons : we are in the quiet season ; the key is the top 20 or 30, and only DJ and Smith are unarguably of that ranking; and its still early, and the top defectors havent slipped too far.
But they need a solution by the new year.

How are the OWGR taking a hit in credibility? The link to the article TheBIgDraw posted was pretty clear - LIV does not meet a number of criteria; and the application process takes over a year.

Just because LIV have come along and bought some of the top players should not mean the LIV exhibitions automatically receive OWGR points.

The players that have taken the cash were fully aware of the situation when they went across. If they were told differently at the time then even more fool them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

OWGR are taking a hit in credibility too, and so its in their interest to sort it. The majors will find their own way around it if the rankings dont. But the rankings will be rendered meaningless if they dont adapt too. Smith slipping to 100 ot whatever in a years time would just make them look stupid.

They have a little time to consider how to handle it for three reasons : we are in the quiet season ; the key is the top 20 or 30, and only DJ and Smith are unarguably of that ranking; and its still early, and the top defectors havent slipped too far.
But they need a solution by the new year.

The Rankings are mainly only used for entry into majors or WGCs

The LIV players are already banned from the WGCs so it’s the majors

The likes of Smith and Dj are exempt for entry into majors for years so at the end of the day it’s irrelevent what their ranking is they will still be at the majors , same with any of the better players in LiV

Majors and Rankings don’t need to and shouldn’t changed to suit 48 golfers -

if LIV golfers want to be ranked like the others then have their events the same as the others to satisfy the criteria laid out for all the other tours

 

[Backsticks]

How are the OWGR taking a hit in credibility? The link to the article TheBIgDraw posted was pretty clear - LIV does not meet a number of criteria; and the application process takes over a year.

Just because LIV have come along and bought some of the top players should not mean the LIV exhibitions automatically receive OWGR points.

The players that have taken the cash were fully aware of the situation when they went across. If they were told differently at the time then even more fool them.

Are you saying that in a year, if Smith is 100th in the owgr, there are 99 golfers in the world who are better than him. Or have the owgr become inaccurate at judging who are the worlds best golfers. So only the O part of its name remains relevant, and the WGR part, obsolete and irrelevant?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Are you saying that in a year, if Smith is 100th in tge owgr next year, there are 99 golfers in the world who are better than him. Or have the owgr become inaccurate at judging who are the worlds best golfers. So only the O part of its name remains relevant, and the WGR part, obsolete and irrelevant?

Smith and all the other LIV golfers knew the consequences of joining LIV and playing in their tournaments.

They've put an obscene amount of money above world ranking points.

Smith won't care - he's got his exemptions into the majors so it doesn't matter where he plays.

 

[Backsticks]

So you agree the owgr will have made itself irrelevant then?

 

[BrianM]

Smith and all the other LIV golfers knew the consequences of joining LIV and playing in their tournaments.

They've put an obscene amount of money above world ranking points.

Smith won't care - he's got his exemptions into the majors so it doesn't matter where he plays.

At least give an answer that is relevant, we get you hate LIV, but at least try and think from a golf / business point of view?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So you agree the owgr will have made itself irrelevant then?

Far from it - there are hundreds of golfers from eligible tours using the points to help them gain entry into various Tour events as well as majors etc

 

[BrianM]

Far from it - there are hundreds of golfers from eligible tours using the points to help them gain entry into various Tour events as well as majors etc

Regardless if Cameron Smith or Dustin Johnson are ok to play in Majors going on past major results, the world rankings can’t be right and proper, no one can surely think otherwise.
It needs to be sorted one way or another.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

At least give an answer that is relevant, we get you hate LIV, but at least try and think from a golf / business point of view?

My answer was relevant. LIV tournaments don't meet criteria for OWGR points; so their players can't accumulate them. So there you go - a golf point of view.

From a business point of view, I've got no idea whether throwing billions of dollars at something in such a short amount of time is good or not.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

So you agree the owgr will have made itself irrelevant then?

Nope the players have made themselves irrelevant when it comes to the OWGR.

 

[Backsticks]

My answer was relevant. LIV tournaments don't meet criteria for OWGR points; so their players can't accumulate them. So there you go - a golf point of view.

From a business point of view, I've got no idea whether throwing billions of dollars at something in such a short amount of time is good or not.

So the owgr would be correct to say that there are 99 men in the world who are better golfers than Smith?

 

[Deleted member 1418]

So the owgr would be correct to say that there are 99 men in the world who are better golfers than Smith?

In terms of the criteria laid down then yes.

 

[Backsticks]

In terms of the criteria laid down then yes.

But not in terms of the criteria of being best at playing golf?

 

[Wilson]

But not in terms of the criteria of being best at playing golf?

What’s the criteria for that?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Regardless if Cameron Smith or Dustin Johnson are ok to play in Majors going on past major results, the world rankings can’t be right and proper, no one can surely think otherwise.
It needs to be sorted one way or another.

The rankings work fine for all the other tours within the sport

It ranks players based on playing within “eligible” events and against the criteria set out - if doesn’t give points for “ability” of the player

Every single other Tour complies with the criteria set out to gain points - if LIV wants its events to have points then it will need to comply the same as others

They won’t change to suit 48 golfers who left “eligible” tours for a tour that has no eligibility within the sport for a number of things - entry into majors , ranking points , entry into other tours. LIV is a purely standalone Tour - it’s has no connection or link to any Tour , it’s a single entity and a closed shop one at that

If LiV and it’s players want to gain ranking points then the process for them to gain them is simple enough but if they don’t then they will continue to be that standalone Tour and it’s players won’t be ranked against all their other peers

 

[Deleted member 1418]

But not in terms of the criteria of being best at playing golf?

Nope. But that's the route Smith has chosen. But as I pointed out, he won't care - he's exempt now for all the majors for the best part of his career, which is where he'll be really judged.

If he wins another 2, 3, 4 or however many majors that's his legacy not how joining LIV affected his world ranking.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But not in terms of the criteria of being best at playing golf?

Players aren’t ranked by their ability - they are ranked by their performances against their peers

 

[Backsticks]

Every single other Tour complies with the criteria set out to gain points - if LIV wants its events to have points then it will need to comply the same as others

They dont really comply.... they made the rules.

I could define the criteria for the OBWGR, better known as the Official Backsticks World Golf Rankings. It would be a great coup for the golf monthly forum to have the no. 1 OBWGR golfer as a poster!

PGAT golfers dont earn OBWGR points by playing that tour, but thats their own choice.