LIV Golf

[Mel Smooth]

Is it though. Is it really……. Where’s your viewership figures to prove that. Also they might want a younger audience but overall figures are what put cash on the table not the age of viewer!

I’m 45 and I’d watch Tiger just hit balls on the range even in his current state. My Mrs newly into golf knows who Tiger is and watches his snippets on SM. The only people she’s heard of on Liv are Rahm, BDC and Tyrell because he makes great snippets of commentary, she’s early last time I check she’s at least 20 years off the bracket your saying is the only ones who watch Tiger.

if you can provide actual facts to back that up FairPlay and I’m going to bow out as its almost like your the only one flogging this horse. But whenever people mention how they think LIV could be improved you go all in and try to bring down the PGAT instead of seeking constructive criticism or acknowledging it’s not perfect.

I prefer the DPWT to PGAT , I watch LIV as I enjoy it being something different and will take the family to JCB next year if I get a chance. I love watching Ladies tour as it’s all golf to be enjoyed in different ways but that doesn’t mean that any tour is beyond criticism and LiV is still the new boy in town so will take more. But digging in and saying Tiger wouldn’t have improved viewers, or brought in more money than having someone like Norman front it is just ludicrous!

Where have I gone all in on briging down the PGAT in this dicussion?

Tiger is a great fit for the PGAT and it's audience who respect what he has achieved in the game.

But, he would have cost LIV HUGE sums of money, to get a guy that will never play competitive golf at the highest level ever again in his life.

It would have probably taken close to a billion dollars to get Woods on board, and he would have simply been a distraction to a lot of the good things that LIV are creating. That is all I'm saying.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Where have I gone all in on briging down the PGAT in this dicussion?

Tiger is a great fit for the PGAT and it's audience who respect what he has achieved in the game.

But, he would have cost LIV HUGE sums of money, to get a guy that will never play competitive golf at the highest level ever again in his life.

It would have probably taken close to a billion dollars to get Woods on board, and he would have simply been a distraction to a lot of the good things that LIV are creating. That is all I'm saying.

Going by many past posts on this thread but let’s focused on the question at hand.

Say he’d cost them a billion! How much have they lost year on year !! With his name attached that number could be balanced out. You could argue his average golf even now is as good as a lot of what people see on Liv or expect to see. You’re focusing on Tiger the player and what he brings as player, that’s not where the value is. The value is in Tiger the man, the brand and that brings in money, more than anything Norman could.

Just wheeling him out as brand ambassador would be worth millions at every event! It would also open other sponsorship doors even though you’re adamant it won’t!

LIV are creating something but it’s currently a long way off being a top product that’s what the Brand ambassador of a Tiger would help do! You get Woods and more top end PGA players would take notice and be more likely to move across. Anyway this subject is being done to death.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Going by many past posts on this thread but let’s focused on the question at hand.

Say he’d cost them a billion! How much have they lost year on year !! With his name attached that number could be balanced out. You could argue his average gold even now is as good as a lot of what people see on Liv or expect to see. You’re focusing on Tiger the player and what he brings as player, that’s not where the value is. The value is in Tiger the man, the brand and that brings in money, more than anything Norman could.

Just wheeling him out as brand ambassador would be worth millions at every event! It would also open other sponsorship doors even though you’re adamant it won’t!

LIV are creating something but it’s currently a long way off being a top product that’s what the Barnes ambassador of a Tiger would help do! You get Woods and more top end PGA players would take notice and be more likely to move across. Anyway this subject me being done to death.

Well, unlike my Tiger viewing demographic claims, that is nothing but speculation. ;-)

What do you think the reaction of the PGAT would have been had Tiger jumped ship to LIV?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Well, unlike my Tiger viewing demographic claims, that is nothing but speculation. ;-)

What do you think the reaction of the PGAT would have been had Tiger jumped ship to LIV?

Where’s the proof to show yours is any less speculation than mine!!! Easy to call someone else out but you need to back yourself up and prove your claims then!

If Tiger had jumped more would sit and follow he’s that big a brand. It would also have caused the PGAT bigger issue knowing the greatest golfer of the last few generations preferred something else.

But as I said this is being done to the death. So let’s leave it there and in the words of a wise Hobbit agree to disagree.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

Well, unlike my Tiger viewing demographic claims, that is nothing but speculation. ;-)

What do you think the reaction of the PGAT would have been had Tiger jumped ship to LIV?

You post nothing but rumours and speculation. The usual candidates are in full Liv rumours and attacks on the PGAT.

Tiger would have cost a billion. But they would have saved an awful lot of money elsewhere. Rahm for example would have been a fraction of his price. Remember how he was going to be the catalyst for others to follow?

I’m pretty sure if they didn’t employ Norman and his ego, Liv could have collaborated with the other tours and has the likes of Rory and Scottie playing their events. Whereas now they are having to force players to play on mini tours to remain relevant in their off season while pretending it’s to grow the game. Most people can see straight through it. Unless you are white knighting for liv.

 

[Mel Smooth]

You post nothing but rumours and speculation. The usual candidates are in full Liv rumours and attacks on the PGAT.

Tiger would have cost a billion. But they would have saved an awful lot of money elsewhere. Rahm for example would have been a fraction of his price. Remember how he was going to be the catalyst for others to follow?

I’m pretty sure if they didn’t employ Norman and his ego, Liv could have collaborated with the other tours and has the likes of Rory and Scottie playing their events. Whereas now they are having to force players to play on mini tours to remain relevant in their off season while pretending it’s to grow the game. Most people can see straight through it. Unless you are white knighting for liv.

So with Norman gone - where are the deals with the DPWT and PGAT?

Or are you just speculating.....

As for my claims...

Tiger Woods Viewer Demographics

The average age of viewers watching Tiger Woods (primarily in PGA Tour events and majors) aligns closely with broader golf broadcast demographics, which skew older due to the sport's traditional audience. Based on recent data:

• The median age for PGA Tour viewers is approximately 63 years old. This reflects the "core" golf audience, which has remained stable despite efforts to attract younger fans through formats like LIV Golf or TGL.
• Tiger Woods' appearances often boost overall viewership but do not significantly alter the age profile, as his draw appeals to long-time fans. For instance, events featuring Woods (e.g., 2023 Hero World Challenge) saw viewership nearly double year-over-year, but the audience composition stayed predominantly middle-aged to senior.
• In contrast, newer leagues co-founded by Woods, like TGL (Tech Golf League), attract a younger crowd with a median viewer age of 51, including 43% aged 18-49—12 years below typical PGA Tour figures. However, this is not representative of Woods' standard PGA viewership.

 

[Neilds]

So with Norman gone - where are the deals with the DPWT and PGAT?

Or are you just speculating.....

As for my claims...

Tiger Woods Viewer Demographics

The average age of viewers watching Tiger Woods (primarily in PGA Tour events and majors) aligns closely with broader golf broadcast demographics, which skew older due to the sport's traditional audience. Based on recent data:

• The median age for PGA Tour viewers is approximately 63 years old. This reflects the "core" golf audience, which has remained stable despite efforts to attract younger fans through formats like LIV Golf or TGL.
• Tiger Woods' appearances often boost overall viewership but do not significantly alter the age profile, as his draw appeals to long-time fans. For instance, events featuring Woods (e.g., 2023 Hero World Challenge) saw viewership nearly double year-over-year, but the audience composition stayed predominantly middle-aged to senior.
• In contrast, newer leagues co-founded by Woods, like TGL (Tech Golf League), attract a younger crowd with a median viewer age of 51, including 43% aged 18-49—12 years below typical PGA Tour figures. However, this is not representative of Woods' standard PGA viewership.

You need to be careful about what stats you use to back up your arguments. The 2nd sentence in the 1st bullet point contradicts your argument that LIV viewers are younger than the PGA viewers.

 

[Mel Smooth]

You need to be careful about what stats you use to back up your arguments. The 2nd sentence in the 1st bullet point contradicts your argument that LIV viewers are younger than the PGA viewers.

How does it?
It's referring to the core audience of the PGAT - which remains in the 60 year old bracket. LIV and TGL have not changed that age grouping for the PGAT audience, but clearly the people watching both LIV and TGL are younger.

 

[WorldHandicapSystem]

So with Norman gone - where are the deals with the DPWT and PGAT?

Or are you just speculating.....

Of course I am speculating. No one knows what would have happened had Norman not been involved. But you have no business pulling people up for doing so given some of the nonsense you have posted.

There are no deals now because Norman was involved, and bridges have been burned. That’s not to say they can’t be rebuilt. Maybe Rory will broker a deal and bring peace to the golf world.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Of course I am speculating. No one knows what would have happened had Norman not been involved. But you have no business pulling people up for doing so given some of the nonsense you have posted.

There are no deals now because Norman was involved, and bridges have been burned. That’s not to say they can’t be rebuilt. Maybe Rory will broker a deal and bring peace to the golf world.

What nonsense?

 

[Neilds]

How does it?
It's referring to the core audience of the PGAT - which remains in the 60 year old bracket. LIV and TGL have not changed that age grouping for the PGAT audience, but clearly the people watching both LIV and TGL are younger.

If you read it properly it is referring to the core golf audience, which it states has not changed despite LIV and TGL.

 

[Mel Smooth]

If you read it properly it is referring to the core golf audience, which it states has not changed despite LIV and TGL.

Fair enough.

 

[Hobbit]

If you read it properly it is referring to the core golf audience, which it states has not changed despite LIV and TGL.

There’s some really good info on the growth of the game in the Tiger Woods era from 1996 to date. It talks about the age demographics, the number of new courses & the number of rounds played at grass roots level. It shows peaks, and plateaus in 2017. It hasn’t dropped off but nor has it grown irrespective of the extra money PGA and LIV have thrown at the game in recent years.

LIV isn’t the new messiah, but nor is the PGA.

There’s any number of spurious conclusions and spin that could be applied from what both tours have done. I think the reality is that any change either tour wants to trumpet is nothing more than a faint squeak, barely a ripple…

 

[Mel Smooth]

There’s some really good info on the growth of the game in the Tiger Woods era from 1996 to date. It talks about the age demographics, the number of new courses & the number of rounds played at grass roots level. It shows peaks, and plateaus in 2017. It hasn’t dropped off but nor has it grown irrespective of the extra money PGA and LIV have thrown at the game in recent years.

LIV isn’t the new messiah, but nor is the PGA.

There’s any number of spurious conclusions and spin that could be applied from what both tours have done. I think the reality is that any change either tour wants to trumpet is nothing more than a faint squeak, barely a ripple…

The biggest impact on golf right now at grass roots level is most likely coming from the creators and YouTubers that occupy social media. That is where the watchtime really is.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You've dodged the question.

If Tiger woud be so good at bringing in sponsorship to LIV, why isn't he bringing in sponsorship to TGL?

Bringing in US based sponsors to an established US based tour, from US players, is a very different proposition to bringng in new partners from new markets on a global scale - and that is where LIV is - breaking new ground. Do you genuinley believe Tiger would be a good fit for that, and go about it anything like the kind of enthusiasm we see from Bryson for example? (His last 3 You Tube videos alone have over 10 million views). The future of LIV is digital markets, Ai technologies, crypto etc. It's a far cry from the tried and tested boys club that the PGAT is built around. Tiger can't even figure out what the yardage is on his own simulator ffs...

TGL Partners

The official partners of TGL presented by SoFi

tglgolf.com

TGL has loads of sponsers , it has multi millions media rights and franchises sold

If Woods did You Tube the figure would dwarf BDC

 

[Hobbit]

The biggest impact on golf right now at grass roots level is most likely coming from the creators and YouTubers that occupy social media. That is where the watchtime really is.

Mmm, I don’t know the answer but I wonder just whether or not the YouTubers have actually grown the game. I don’t doubt that there’s a following, I know I have a few subscribed on my YouTube account. But do they grow the game?

 

[Mel Smooth]

Mmm, I don’t know the answer but I wonder just whether or not the YouTubers have actually grown the game. I don’t doubt that there’s a following, I know I have a few subscribed on my YouTube account. But do they grow the game?

I can’t speak for everyone but my lad watches nothing else, and his mates who are all now starting to play golf follow plenty of creators on tik tok and instagram. I mean if Good Good are sponsoring a PGAT event, there must be some sort of growth somewhere to enable them to finance it.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Mmm, I don’t know the answer but I wonder just whether or not the YouTubers have actually grown the game. I don’t doubt that there’s a following, I know I have a few subscribed on my YouTube account. But do they grow the game?

I reckon more youngsters watch YouTubers than actual PGA of LIV events.
Watching tho pros can be pretty boring at times imo.
Very rare do we get an exciting Sunday when the big names are at the top of a tight leaderboard.
YouTube golf tends to be more laid back and easy viewing.
I reckon more teenage golfers would know who Grant is,not sure they’d recognise Bob Macintyre.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Mmm, I don’t know the answer but I wonder just whether or not the YouTubers have actually grown the game. I don’t doubt that there’s a following, I know I have a few subscribed on my YouTube account. But do they grow the game?

“Growing the game” is a tag line thrown around by many

The real growing the game is done by the clubs and club pros who look at ways to bring all into the sport

Not many will start to watch golf tournaments or you tube etc unless they are already into golf

The biggest thing that’s grown the game in recent years - Covid

 

[Hobbit]

“Growing the game” is a tag line thrown around by many

The real growing the game is done by the clubs and club pros who look at ways to bring all into the sport

Not many will start to watch golf tournaments or you tube etc unless they are already into golf

The biggest thing that’s grown the game in recent years - Covid

I think the any is many faceted.

Covid brought people into the game but that was 5 years ago.

Honestly, I think the biggest growth comes from mates taking up the game when more energetic sports become a thing of the past. Clubs and pro’s no doubt develop the individual but only those that have already shown an interest.

Those the come into the sport after going to watch a tournament, LIV or otherwise are probably numbered in single digits.