LIV Golf

[Arthur Wedge]

The players are being asked to go back Phil, to help keep the DPWT solvent.


You need to move on from this angle of repeatedly attacking the player who went to LIV - the reason the PGAT and the DPWT are struggling is because of the decisions they took when a rival tour came on the scene.

Asked by who ?

Who has asked anyone to go back to the DP Tour ?

And the whole of professional golf is struggling - viewing figures are down across the board , attendances are down across the board

LIV isn’t “solvent” by any means

A player isn’t being “attacked” - the players did that when they attacked the tour that made them - soon enough one of them will look inwards and actually put their hands up and admit a lot of this is down to their greed.

We are in this situation because of greed , money and a vendetta

 

[AussieKB]

Oh to be so righteous.....

 

[Bdill93]

Asked by who ?

Who has asked anyone to go back to the DP Tour ?

And the whole of professional golf is struggling - viewing figures are down across the board , attendances are down across the board

LIV isn’t “solvent” by any means

A player isn’t being “attacked” - the players did that when they attacked the tour that made them - soon enough one of them will look inwards and actually put their hands up and admit a lot of this is down to their greed.

We are in this situation because of greed , money and a vendetta

This is mainly because its boring now though. The only 4 events we all want to watch are the majors - because they have the best fields.

PGAT field is the strongest but there's a real drop in household names that bring in viewers - they're all on LIV. (obvs not actually all of them)

LIV has a strong field of names but their events are tougher to tune in to - odd times and not on commercial TV - and weird format puts some people off.

Coming back together is the only fix. 12-14 PGAT events, 4 majors and a handful of team competitions a year - top players still only playing about 26 weeks a year - viewers come back

Everybody wins...

 

[Arthur Wedge]

This is mainly because its boring now though. The only 4 events we all want to watch are the majors - because they have the best fields.

PGAT field is the strongest but there's a real drop in household names that bring in viewers - they're all on LIV. (obvs not actually all of them)

LIV has a strong field of names but their events are tougher to tune in to - odd times and not on commercial TV - and weird format puts some people off.

Coming back together is the only fix. 12-14 PGAT events, 4 majors and a handful of team competitions a year - top players still only playing about 26 weeks a year - viewers come back

Everybody wins...

LIV and Norman doesn’t win


The whole thing has been diluted


Even the viewing figures for the majors has dropped off

The money grab is putting people off

Was never a huge fan of PGAT anyway but some events were worth watching because it had all the top players

The WGCs were good but again based in the US - the events outside were poorly attended Which is why they stopped

The players will go with the money now - PIF have thrown the billions in and they all want a piece

 

[Bdill93]

The whole thing has been diluted

Even the viewing figures for the majors has dropped off

The money grab is putting people off

Was never a huge fan of PGAT anyway but some events were worth watching because it had all the top players

The WGCs were good but again based in the US - the events outside were poorly attended Which is why they stopped

The players will go with the money now - PIF have thrown the billions in and they all want a piece

I think a new schedule and the players back together will bring back some viewers - but overall it isn't the most interesting sport to watch until round 4, that's its biggest issue.

Edit - LIV are the biggest winners of all Phil. Players got BANK and will be back playing on PGAT.

PIF - Drop in the ocean investment of a few billion returns control over the biggest golf tour in the world.. big win.

Norman gets a thanks for his role and another big pay day to go off into the sunset.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I think a new schedule and the players back together will bring back some viewers - but overall it isn't the most interesting sport to watch until round 4, that's its biggest issue.

The DP Tour has the most worldwide devisive schedule but players don’t really want to travel all over the world and markets don’t demand it

 

[Bdill93]

The DP Tour has the most worldwide devisive schedule but players don’t really want to travel all over the world and markets don’t demand it

The markets dont demand a second rate tour coming to town no.

But some markets are desperate for top level golf - look at LIV Australia!

There's a big differences between Rory, Scottie, Rahm, DJ, BDC, Phil, Koepka, Matsuyama etc all coming to town than Hojgaard, Bob Mac and Paul Waring...

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The markets dont demand a second rate tour coming to town no.

But some markets are desperate for top level golf - look at LIV Australia!

There's a big differences between Rory, Scottie, Rahm, DJ, BDC, Phil, Koepka, Matsuyama etc all coming to town than Hojgaard, Bob Mac and Paul Waring...

Then just have to ask what was stopping those players going there when the DP tour went there

Aussies are sport mad - they will support any event

But there is a reason why they have a good number of events in US and Europe

To get the top players playing outside home means money and then it becomes a case of what’s sustainable- tough to get sponsers outside the US to make it sustainable which is why events outside struggle

 

[BubbaP]

Something often glossed over - the DPWT have an impressive multi country schedule. Several of which have 'home tours' there already.
Can come across as 'do as we say, not as we do' at times.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Something often glossed over - the DPWT have an impressive multi country schedule. Several of which have 'home tours' there already.
Can come across as 'do as we say, not as we do' at times.

Aren’t the DP tour “co sanctioned” along with those home tours


In Aus they co sanction with the Aus PGA

In Africa it’s with the sunshine tour

Asia it’s with the Asian Tour and even with the PGAT

They aren’t going into other counties and creating events to go against the home tours

 

[Bdill93]

Then just have to ask what was stopping those players going there when the DP tour went there

Aussies are sport mad - they will support any event

But there is a reason why they have a good number of events in US and Europe

To get the top players playing outside home means money and then it becomes a case of what’s sustainable- tough to get sponsers outside the US to make it sustainable which is why events outside struggle

Money and competition...

If "The Players" was held at Royal Melbourne (don't even know if that's a course but sounds familiar) I'm sure they'd be playing.

PGAT has the competition/ prestige, LIV has the money to fund overseas events till they find their feet.

If you look at the LIV schedule this coming year - notice how LIV UK now has big ol JCB logos on it. Year 1 at JCB proved there's a market - Year 2 looks like progression and a title sponsor for the event.

PGAT cant run an event without an income stream to begin with, LIV can - expanding to a world wide tour is way more on the cards with PIF backing.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Money and competition...

If "The Players" was held at Royal Melbourne (don't even know if that's a course but sounds familiar) I'm sure they'd be playing.

PGAT has the competition/ prestige, LIV has the money to fund overseas events till they find their feet.

If you look at the LIV schedule this coming year - notice how LIV UK now has big ol JCB logos on it. Year 1 at JCB proved there's a market - Year 2 looks like progression and a title sponsor for the event.

PGAT cant run an event without an income stream to begin with, LIV can - expanding to a world wide tour is way more on the cards with PIF backing.

Money brings the competition

There is always in a market in the UK - look af the crowds for any event in the Uk when the British Masters were restarted they were sold out , the PGA at Wentworth

These are markets that are already there and have crowds going to them

Even with just a handful of decent golfers the golfers in the UK will go - it’s an established market

It’s those that struggle to get crowds - middles east , areas in Asia , Africa etc

To have the worldwide events you need to have the market there - as opposed to concentrating on just established markets

Even then the level of money from Liv is unsustainable and PGAT will get there soon enough if the crowds stay away

 

[Bdill93]

Money brings the competition

There is always in a market in the UK - look af the crowds for any event in the Uk when the British Masters were restarted they were sold out , the PGA at Wentworth

These are markets that are already there and have crowds going to them

Even with just a handful of decent golfers the golfers in the UK will go - it’s an established market

It’s those that struggle to get crowds - middles east , areas in Asia , Africa etc

To have the worldwide events you need to have the market there - as opposed to concentrating on just established markets

Even then the level of money from Liv is unsustainable and PGAT will get there soon enough if the crowds stay away

But have we even given say Japan a consistent top tier event to prove theres no market? Or have they hosted the odd event and let it fall on its face?

You start a new event there, bring over all the top names and do it for 3 years or so - ticket sales will either increase in time, or falter.

The only real way of knowing though is to do it and do it well.

PIF can make these things happen, PGAT cannot.

They paid ONE GUY 500m to join their tour, I think the sustainability element is covered for a while.

 

[Pin-seeker]

I seem to remember people saying LIV wouldn’t last
Well this thread is knocking on 3years old
Would be interesting to see peoples post count on it

 

[PJ87]

I seem to remember people saying LIV wouldn’t last
Well this thread is knocking on 3years old
Would be interesting to see peoples post count on it

Does it count when it's across multiple profiles?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But have we even given say Japan a consistent top tier event to prove theres no market? Or have they hosted the odd event and let it fall on its face?

You start a new event there, bring over all the top names and do it for 3 years or so - ticket sales will either increase in time, or falter.

The only real way of knowing though is to do it and do it well.

PIF can make these things happen, PGAT cannot.

They paid ONE GUY 500m to join their tour, I think the sustainability element is covered for a while.

The WGC was in China for a number of years and it just didn’t work

To get the top players into Japan you need to pay them , to pay them you need to sponsers and you also need to get buy in from the players most of which based in the US to fly all over the place

The PGAT have had a co sanctioned event in Japan for a few years now

As for sustainability of LIV - last season is generated just under £100mil - that doesn’t spread too far when multiple players are on guaranteed contracts plus prize money - it’s nowhere near sustainable by any stretch , it solely relies on PIF money

Other tours have major sponsers and the key thing - major media rights

It’s going to be always very very tough to create a full worldwide market for the sport that’s sustainable

 

[Pin-seeker]

Does it count when it's across multiple profiles?

Baffles me how some get any work done or spend time with their families

 

[Mel Smooth]

I seem to remember people saying LIV wouldn’t last
Well this thread is knocking on 3years old
Would be interesting to see peoples post count on it

I hope I'm winning...

 

[Pin-seeker]

I hope I'm winning...

Definitely top 2

 

[BubbaP]

Aren’t the DP tour “co sanctioned” along with those home tours


In Aus they co sanction with the Aus PGA

In Africa it’s with the sunshine tour

Asia it’s with the Asian Tour and even with the PGAT

They aren’t going into other counties and creating events to go against the home tours

Yes with some, and whilst there is likely benefits to both, do wonder how much choice the "smaller" ones really have.

Think you are maybe mixing up Japan with Asia

Asian Tour Commissioner questions lack of professional courtesy as DP World Tour teeing-up in Singapore & Thailand - Irish Golfer Magazine

"I still feel we could have a professional relationship without being formally aligned with the European Tour but I do feel we should learn to still co-exist in the golfing sense"

irishgolfer.ie

Asian Tour Shocked and Disappointed over Sanctioning of New Series - Sportcal

Singapore, March 23: The Asian Tour today expressed shock and disappointment in the European Tour’s role in sanctioning a new rival series of golf events in Asia, saying that Europe has stepped well out of its boundary.

www.sportcal.com