D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I can't remember who it was. It may be rubbish someone made up, but I thought one of you lot may know if there was any discussion about it.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Mel Smooth
Hacker
I’d imagine it’s complete rubbish - or you’ve made it up ;-)
This does not look like a man who’s about to take legal action to me…
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
I certainly didn't make it up.
Somebody Harrington was mentioned (not Paddy).
It may well be cobblers
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Think a lot of it comes from these posts , not sure if there is any suing etc but i wonder if there is any issues with players contracts etc or was it Greg Norman telling them lies to get them to sign
Shame that he hasn’t said who told him
But at least he has admitted that they knew there would be sacrifices and consequences by going to LIV
I see Donald has said players on LIV will be able to play next year if they follow the rules
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Dear ‘King’ Jon…feeling emotional about missing out on some PGA events? Oh dear…but no matter, you can console yourself through knowing that you can go into your counting house and count all your money…that’ll make you feel better.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Let's be honest - there was never a cat in hell's chance that Rahm wouldn't be on the next Ryder Cup team. Whatever it takes, we will make sure he's there. Would be stupid not to.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
I think this is really the nub.
Some people, like yourself it seems, are happy for the OWGR to hold a 'FIFA like' role over professional golf - deciding what does and doesn't go.
Some others think they should just do the job their own mission/vision states, and rank players. They've inferred they could do it, but choose not to.
Everyone is entitled to have a view, and not like how the liv gang have decided to do things. The usual criticisms have merits. But is that really the OWGR's job?
Away from the OWGR, ultimately if someone doesn't like it, just don't watch it, simples.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Well the OWGR ultimately was created to help the majors with who they invited into their majors , that’s the main reason for them - the majors have the main hold on the points because it’s their events they are used for - that’s really is there job. It’s the same with most rankings - used for entry into the big comps - same with the Slams in tennis
But it don’t think anyone would have issues with them getting ranking points providing they fit in with the criteria to ensure it’s fair on all tours
If they do get points I think they will still be a small amount because of their format
They can rank LIV players , there are just some changes LIV need to make - it’s not about the size of field or no cut etc but there are issues
But I think LIV have issues after seeing some reports and stuff being mentioned from Saudi
wjemather
Well-known member
The rankings were created by IMG, independently, and had nothing to do with major exemptions. They we're often used as a tool to promote their big name players. Their official status, use as exemption criteria for the majors, and control by the governing bodies, all came later.
The rankings are not fair to all tours now.
Awarding points only to the top 24 (for example), similarly to how the PGAT's limited fields are treated, would mean a reasonable number of points for the top players, but only the top players.
There are no real issues preventing LIV events from receiving ranking points, because no rankings can ever be accurate enough for the supposed effect of team mentality to make a difference. It's also not a function of the rankings to dictate promotion/relegation and player turnover. There are more than enough crossover events (majors, DPWT, Asian tour, etc.) to reliably adjust the strokes gained/performance data upon which the rankings are built.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Thought this was a good piece
The problem is that owgr has set criteria that Liv hasn’t met. That’s been made obvious to them, and even a staunch Liv fan should acknowledge that, as per the current criteria, they fall short in a number of areas
If they break the criteria for Liv, then what’s to stop Qatar coming in, offering 12 players $1bn to play 6 hole events and demand the same treatment. Where does it end?
Those moving across knew that nothing was in place at the time of moving. They chose money and likely believed assurances from GN about majors thats hasn’t yet proved true. I struggle to have sympathy for them, they were badly advised and/or overly trusting on that point.
It will eventually work itself out, but in the meantime the money will cushion the blow.
It’s also worth remembering that many liv players didn’t even bother with qualifying for the 2 open majors last year
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Do they really though? Do you have a verifiable link?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Official World Golf Ranking - Ranking Explained
ELIGIBLE TOURS. OFFICIAL WORLD GOLF RANKING FOUNDERS. STAY IN TOUCH. © 2022 - OFFICIAL WORLD GOLF RANKING.
www.owgr.com
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
Official World Golf Ranking - Ranking Explained
ELIGIBLE TOURS. OFFICIAL WORLD GOLF RANKING FOUNDERS. STAY IN TOUCH. © 2022 - OFFICIAL WORLD GOLF RANKING.
www.owgr.com
It may be here.
But I can’t be arsed to read it
wjemather
Well-known member
There are guidelines that were written with new development tours in mind (that certain people like to wave around like they've won the lottery), but points are ultimately awarded at the discretion of the board. Last year, members of that board effectively confirmed that LIV does not need to adhere to many of the aforementioned guidelines when explaining why their application was declined.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
'How it works' is something different to what was asked.Official World Golf Ranking - Ranking Explained
ELIGIBLE TOURS. OFFICIAL WORLD GOLF RANKING FOUNDERS. STAY IN TOUCH. © 2022 - OFFICIAL WORLD GOLF RANKING.
But if you read it, which parts are the 'multiple criteria not met' bits?
I.e.
ELIGIBLE FORMATS
All the formats below relate to Individual Tournament Play. Where a tournament includes a team element, only the individual element of the tournament will be eligible for inclusion in the OWGR System
Mel Smooth
Hacker
OWGR points wouldn't have their true value to LIV players anyway now, so I don't even know why everybody is arguing for or against them.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
They explained the reasons why
LIV Golf loses bid to earn world ranking points in unanimous OWGR decision | LIV Golf Series | The Guardian
Official World Golf Ranking is concerned about the LIV-circuit format while LIV says professional golf is now without global ranking system
Dawson said the board committee felt LIV Golf’s tournament format – 54-hole, no-cut events for 48 players – was an issue but added that it was one that was capable of being managed through an “appropriate mathematical formula”.
The board did not make a determination what that adjustment might be and will not do so while there are other “unresolved deficiencies” which render performance comparisons with players competing in existing OWGR Tour events extremely difficult.
The bigger concern, according to the letter, is the limited access for players to join LIV Golf which, barring injury, features the same 48 players all season.
The letter also revealed that LIV informed the OWGR in July that 14 players will be invited back next season regardless of their performance, more than double the number that LIV officials originally told the OWGR.
“Simply put, the board committee does not believe it is equitable to thousands of players who strive every day to get starts in OWGR eligible tournaments to have a tour operate in this mostly closed fashion,”
Dawson wrote.
He said the committee remains concerned about the implications of conducting individual and team competitions simultaneously, and singled out actions and comments attributed to Sebastian Munoz during an April tournament.
Koepka led Munoz by a shot on the final hole and both were about 40 feet away for birdie. Koepka’s putt settled just over four feet from the cup before Munoz, needing a birdie to force a playoff but whose team led Koepka’s Smash unit by a stroke, lagged his putt to just inside four feet and made par.
“It’s weird, because I knew we were one stroke ahead on the team, so I couldn’t go extra. I knew I couldn’t be too aggressive,” Munoz said at the time. “He got the individual, we got the team. I call it a tie.”
Dawson said OWGR invites LIV to resubmit its application should it make any modifications that impact the areas of non-conformance.
“The decision to respectfully decline LIV’s application at this time it not meant to discourage your efforts to innovate in men’s professional golf and/or cause you to make changes you may not believe to be in the best interests of your tour and events,” he said.
Owgr literally openly published the letter that outlines the 2 core reasons
If you believe the timing of the introduction of the liv qualification event was a coincidence then you’re incredibly naive and I have some magic potion to sell you
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Okay you agree, no actual criteria that can be reviewed.They explained the reasons why
LIV Golf loses bid to earn world ranking points in unanimous OWGR decision | LIV Golf Series | The Guardian
Official World Golf Ranking is concerned about the LIV-circuit format while LIV says professional golf is now without global ranking systemamp.theguardian.com
Dawson said the board committee felt LIV Golf’s tournament format – 54-hole, no-cut events for 48 players – was an issue but added that it was one that was capable of being managed through an “appropriate mathematical formula”.
The board did not make a determination what that adjustment might be and will not do so while there are other “unresolved deficiencies” which render performance comparisons with players competing in existing OWGR Tour events extremely difficult.
The bigger concern, according to the letter, is the limited access for players to join LIV Golf which, barring injury, features the same 48 players all season.
The letter also revealed that LIV informed the OWGR in July that 14 players will be invited back next season regardless of their performance, more than double the number that LIV officials originally told the OWGR.
“Simply put, the board committee does not believe it is equitable to thousands of players who strive every day to get starts in OWGR eligible tournaments to have a tour operate in this mostly closed fashion,”
Dawson wrote.
He said the committee remains concerned about the implications of conducting individual and team competitions simultaneously, and singled out actions and comments attributed to Sebastian Munoz during an April tournament.
Koepka led Munoz by a shot on the final hole and both were about 40 feet away for birdie. Koepka’s putt settled just over four feet from the cup before Munoz, needing a birdie to force a playoff but whose team led Koepka’s Smash unit by a stroke, lagged his putt to just inside four feet and made par.
“It’s weird, because I knew we were one stroke ahead on the team, so I couldn’t go extra. I knew I couldn’t be too aggressive,” Munoz said at the time. “He got the individual, we got the team. I call it a tie.”
Dawson said OWGR invites LIV to resubmit its application should it make any modifications that impact the areas of non-conformance.
“The decision to respectfully decline LIV’s application at this time it not meant to discourage your efforts to innovate in men’s professional golf and/or cause you to make changes you may not believe to be in the best interests of your tour and events,” he said.
Just bumbling, whataboutery press releases.
I don't really care if they receive points or not, just feel the OWGR have embarrassed themselves throughout this, and it could have been so easily avoided. Just publish some rules that they don't adhere to. End it.
Again though, why is it their job to dictate, and not create formulas to work out?
