Orikoru
Tour Winner
And their answer is, presumably: the players need to be playing somewhere where their status as one of the best players can be verified and proven. If it can't then they're not one of the best players.
LIV Golf
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
wjemather
Well-known member
A bunch of top-50 players DID suddenly jump to LIV. You appear to be saying they should have done something 12 months ago?
I am not. Those who jumped have access to the majors. So there was no need to do anything a year ago either.
wjemather
Well-known member
That is essentially the reasoning they have offered, based primarily on insufficient (and unclear) roster turnover. Other ranking systems demonstrate that it can be done, and relatively simply.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
But it makes sense as a reasoning to me. How do we know that say, Reed is still one of the 'best players' when he's finishing mid-table amongst has-beens and never-have-beens? All you can see is he once was one of the best players, but now? Not sure. He's not even won an LIV event.
Swango1980
Well-known member
To be fair to LIV golfers, they have got used to playing in weak fields. As such, thet have got used to mediocre play themselves, as they don't need to bring their A game week in, week out.
It is probably partly why a LIV golfer was part of a pair that suffered a record Ryder Cup defeat
AussieKB
Well-known member
And on and on it goes......but I just love the anti Livers continuing to amuse me.....please keep it up, free entertainment.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
You are spot on he's not won, but 4th in standings currently so has been pretty consistent.
On the theme of stats for everything, only a few players made the cut in all 4 majors this year, if majors are the pinnacle then could argue that indicates something....
Swango1980
Well-known member
Indeed. Equally, the pro Livers continue to amuse us. It's why we keep coming back to this thread, despite actually having no interest in actually watching a LIV event. The golf politics is infinitely more interesting than the LIV golf
doublebogey7
Head Pro
If the members of LiV wish to get OWGR points then the players need to pressure GN to change the structure of their tour. They won't though as they will lose their guaranteed income, so will instead stay on the sidelines complaining about how they've been wronged by an organisation they chose to leave.
GB72
Money List Winner
Indeed. Equally, the pro Livers continue to amuse us. It's why we keep coming back to this thread, despite actually having no interest in actually watching a LIV event. The golf politics is infinitely more interesting than the LIV golf
I have no love for either the PGA or LIV but I do agree that the politics of it is actually pretty interesting.
On the whole World Ranking thing, I am both for massive reform but also am not sure whether LIV should have points either. What I can see (rightly or wrongly) is that at present the World Rankings may as well just be the PGA Tour order of merit as the other tours in the world receive so little in the way of points as to may it almost worthless. How do they get decent ranking points, go to the PGA Tour of course.
Personally, and maybe it is just me, but (and I am using this number for ease of maths) if a major has 100 entrants, that should be the top 40 on the PGA Tour then the top 30 from the DP Tour and the top 30 from the Asian Tour, then you have the Top 100 golfers from their respective tours rather than the most of the PGA tour top 100 plus a couple of token entries. That would also help strengthen the other global tours.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
The entertainment comes from the Livers who can't/won't accept that their boys aren't getting ranking points any time soon....
GB72
Money List Winner
Nah, the entertainment comes from both sides, the pro LIV ones thinking that the tour will be anything other than an Trojan Horse to get massive Saudi involvement in the PGA Tour (Tour Finals in the middle east anyone) and the PGA Tour supporters who miss the irony of Saudi applying pretty much the same tactics as the PGA Tour has done for years to crush any opposing tours and missing that LIV has been a massive diversion tactic whilst the real sportswashing investment deals have been going on in the background. In fact the whole idea that anyone can get animated about who hands the tin pots and prizes for people hitting a ball around is quite funny.
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Agree with the sums up part, covered similar topics to those we discussed.Sums up the situation fairly well then draws the wrong conclusion. As a regular listener to their podcast I’d say that’s not unusual for bunkered.
It’s all about opinions though.
I took his conclusion as his opinion - what journalists do. And your opinion was different - as you mentioned all about opinions.
Anyway thanks for engaging in the discussion, perhaps an island of calm in amongst the usual stuff on this thread!
The post after yours unfortunately reverted back to the 'can't differentiate opinion from fact'
rksquire
Head Pro
The other part of that pair being the 'supposed' world number 1.... who now with weakened PGAT fields no longer has to bring his A game week in, week out. The decision has been made, as it had to be, but the system has been disrupted and rightly or wrongly is now open to criticism or question. I don't think the decision was right, but I understand the reasoning and there appears to have been a dialogue - in the end the LIV responses weren't sufficient to tip the balance. It still would be open to criticism but there was an opportunity to award minimal points (based on the reasoning and subject to enhancements if improvements made over time) that would have kept players ticking over but no threat to the top 20 (on the basis of reduced tournaments and minimal multipliers etc.). Of course it would never have been enough, but it would have highlighted a pathway for change and increased stature if embraced.To be fair to LIV golfers, they have got used to playing in weak fields. As such, thet have got used to mediocre play themselves, as they don't need to bring their A game week in, week out.
It is probably partly why a LIV golfer was part of a pair that suffered a record Ryder Cup defeat
Swango1980
Well-known member
But, the primary reason that other tours get significantly fewer points is because the fields are significantly weaker than PGAT. That golf has widened over the years. Even many of the best youngsters go to PGAT early, maybe have a college career in the states before turning pro.
I don't think it is a case of giving the PGAT more points just for sake of it. If all the top quality PGAT players decided to play in European Tour event, I suspect that would inflate the ranking points available fairly substantially.
GB72
Money List Winner
But how are the other tours supposed to strengthen their fields when everything is geared towards pushing players to the PGA tour. I am all for sport growing globally and in the same way that their is debate and some outrage at the way Tier 2 rugby nations are treated to ensure the strength of the established nations, I think that all tours should be a viable way to reach the majors irrespective of what tour you play on.
It is a chicken and egg situation, other tours have less points because of who enters and so access to the majors and the chance of increasing sponsorship is reduced but they will not attract the big names until such time they have more ranking points and bigger name players.
This may be just a personal thing but I remember (I think) the majors and the Ryder Cup being more interesting when I was younger when it was seen as the clash of 2 tours rather then being the same players who knock it around with each other every week.
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
New tour comes along throwing off untold money to tempt golfers. It attracts a few big names, some a bit long in the tooth and on downward trajectories, and a lot of other mediocre and substandard players. The players that go love the new lifestyle and money. New tour does not conform to justifying ranking points. Players huff and puff and stamp their feet while taking the sportswashing of their new masters. Then the money men get their way and force a merger. Liv will go on the liv players say.... And then they stamp their feet some more as they still get no ranking points. And the saga goes on while the part timers continue to earn the big bucks and a few play in the one-sided Ryder Cup....And all through this Brooks stars in a TV show, sulks a lot and gets hammered in Italy at golf by some non-livers! We wait for the next installment....
Mel Smooth
Hacker
Interesting take from a guy who certainly has more connections than anybody on here.
LincolnShep
Head Pro
Those questions can easily be reversed.
How can you justify not giving ranking points for beating Brooks Koepka?
How can you justify not giving ranking points to Brooks Koepka?
