LIV Golf

[wjemather]

The key problem, as I guess we knew all along, is that only a small hamdful of the LIV field was ever playing in competition with the rest of the world. So effectively all LIV golfers in a closed bubble are unrankable in any real sense.

Name one LIV golfer who hasn't played multiple events outside LIV.

 

[SteveW86]

So Matt Fitzpatrick playing golf with his mum is more deserving of points than Brooks Koepka playing golf with Cam Smith?

Can you guys not see how ridiculous it is, to defend the ranking system. It’s operating at a level that is laughable.

I'm not sure the argument of "Well that mickey mouse event gets points, so our whole mickey mouse tour should get them" really stands up.

You (LIV) want an organisation to change its rules to suit you, those rules have been in place for many years before LIV started. LIV only has itself to blame for not being eligible for ranking points.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

It's a really weird decision in my opinion. The have a mechanism in the algorithm (through the tour coefficient) to award points that are reflective of the smaller field and shorter format; but they've chosen not to use it. The "world" rankings are no longer the world rankings, they're missing a few dozen players.
I don't feel sorry for the players, they took the money and knew the risks; but I do wonder whether OWGR have left themselves wide open to competition from a rival ranking body. Probably one funded by the Saudis.

Have you read the full letter from OWGR to LIV about the reasoning for not giving them the points? If you have, then you should have noted that there are further issues as to why OWGR isn't willing to pass them through.

 

[SteveW86]

Regardless of your thoughts on LIV and where the money comes from, the OWGR have a duty to stay impartial, which hasn’t happened here in my opinion.
It shouldn’t be hard to find a way to give them points of some sort.
Its basically a PGA ranking system now.

What a load of rubbish.

The way for LIV to get ranking points would be to follow the OWGR criteria, which is clearly set out and is followed by all the tours which get points.

 

[Captainron]

It's their system and their rules. No need for them to change it to accommodate LIV.

Hopefully this will stop the movement of players to LIV.

 

[BrianM]

What a load of rubbish.

The way for LIV to get ranking points would be to follow the OWGR criteria, which is clearly set out and is followed by all the tours which get points.

Just because something has always been done one way doesn’t make it right, you can apply this to any business.
Golf is changing because of what LIV brought to the sport.
You don’t have to like LIV to have an impartial view.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Just because something has always been done one way doesn’t make it right, you can apply this to any business.
Golf is changing because of what LIV brought to the sport.
You don’t have to like LIV to have an impartial view.

Yeah, your view is completely impartial here too. Glad we could establish that.

Edit: Your reply to Steve isn't even an argument. Golf is changing, you're 100% right so far, but it is NOT OWGRs responsibility to shoehorn in that change into how they work to suit LIV.

 

[SteveW86]

Just because something has always been done one way doesn’t make it right, you can apply this to any business.
Golf is changing because of what LIV brought to the sport.
You don’t have to like LIV to have an impartial view.

What, in your view has LIV brought to the sport that is positive?

 

[Bdill93]

I think this whole OWGR debate is a load of nothing anyway.

Come the merger agreement the better players will be featuring back on PGAT events in no time.

 

[Swango1980]

Just because something has always been done one way doesn’t make it right, you can apply this to any business.
Golf is changing because of what LIV brought to the sport.
You don’t have to like LIV to have an impartial view.

And, just because something has always been done one way doesn't make it wrong either. Of course, the World Rankings have not always been done one way. It has been adapted over the years if they think there is room for improvement. That doesn't mean it is necessary for them to change any time a minority demands it.

They have their criteria, and that criteria is clearly there for a reason. Otherwise it would never have been criteria in the first place. If LIV does not meet some of that criteria, then there is a good chance they won't get their ranking points. They'd have to try and prove that the existing criteria is clearly wrong (and, pre LIV, did professional golfers have major issues with this criteria, or did it only become a problem once they joined LIV?)

 

[BrianM]

What, in your view has LIV brought to the sport that is positive?

From what I’ve read and seen at the events on tv etc.
They seem to have kids zones at events which in my opinion is important as they are the next generation to play the game and the team aspect appeals to kids as well.

 

[SteveW86]

From what I’ve read and seen at the events on tv etc.
They seem to have kids zones at events which in my opinion is important as they are the next generation to play the game and the team aspect appeals to kids as well.

Theres no doubt that engaging with younger people should be an important part of an event, but for those two points to be the best you could come up with I think speaks volumes about how weak the argument is for LIV.

 

[Imurg]

The team aspect is one of the reasons they're not getting points
Sebastian Menoz admitted he lagged a 40 foot putt so his team would win..
That's not trying to make the best score you can and damages the credibility of the scoring..

 

[Deleted member 29109]

TGL will/could/should/might do more for engagement with younger audiences. Maybe they will get OWGR points for their events too.

 

[wjemather]

I think this whole OWGR debate is a load of nothing anyway.

Come the merger agreement the better players will be featuring back on PGAT events in no time.

I agree it's a load of nothing, but not for that reason.

Even if LIV did get points, they would be so low (because of their field size) that players would have little chance of ranking high enough for major exemptions anyway. They would still require specific criteria (like the PGAT and DPWT) to get in without qualifying or getting special invites, unless there was a substantial change in how OWGR calculates and allocates points (those limited field PGAT events may prove to be a catalyst for that if regular events end up getting more points).

Additionally, the OWGR has never done a great job of ranking anyone outside the very top of the game. After its update last year, more than ever, it's a system that excessively favours playing certain tournaments and tours.

 

[Mel Smooth]

TGL will/could/should/might do more for engagement with younger audiences. Maybe they will get OWGR points for their events too.

Why shouldn’t they?

 

[Captainron]

From what I’ve read and seen at the events on tv etc.
They seem to have kids zones at events which in my opinion is important as they are the next generation to play the game and the team aspect appeals to kids as well.

Normal events also have these sorts of things for kids too?

They just don't have the music blaring out as much

 

[wjemather]

The team aspect is one of the reasons they're not getting points
Sebastian Menoz admitted he lagged a 40 foot putt so his team would win..
That's not trying to make the best score you can and damages the credibility of the scoring..

Good job no-one on the PGAT has ever mailed in the back 9 on Sunday, or treated it as a practice round, when out of contention. Wouldn't want any of them "not trying to make the best score... and damaging the credibility of the scoring".

 

[Imurg]

Good job no-one on the PGAT has ever mailed in the back 9 on Sunday, or treated it as a practice round, when out of contention. Wouldn't want any of them "not trying to make the best score... and damaging the credibility of the scoring".

If you can't see the difference and why it makes a difference then there is little point in continuing the conversation

 

[Imurg]

Why shouldn’t they?

Because half of it is going to be on a Simulator....