LIV Golf

[Deleted member 25172]

Because half of it is going to be on a Simulator....

Come on - golf is changing! Don't be a dinosaur. I'm eagerly awaiting my first OWGR points from my local club's monthly Top Tracer Challenge!!! #GrowTheGame

 

[SteveW86]

Because half of it is going to be on a Simulator....

Atleast they wont have to worry whether they can lift, clean and place

 

[wjemather]

What a load of rubbish.

The way for LIV to get ranking points would be to follow the OWGR criteria, which is clearly set out and is followed by all the tours which get points.

The thing with broad guidelines such as the "OWGR criteria", is that they are ultimately meaningless when the board has "sole discretion" to decide whether they should or shouldn't be applied.

Remember, these are the same guidelines that (apparently) mandated 72 holes, cuts, full fields, no shotgun starts, and a 2 year application period? None of these things, and more, have turned out to be necessary - we all knew that was the case before this all started. Some people just needed these straws to cling to. Apparently, some still do.

 

[wjemather]

What, in your view has LIV brought to the sport that is positive?

There are many, but from a watching on tv perspective, reminding everyone that coverage of golf is better when it actually shows the golf rather than commercials has to be right up there. Hopefully, other broadcasters will take note, but coverage of the Solheim and Ryder Cups wasn't promising.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Because half of it is going to be on a Simulator....

I know it is, a lot of golfers play golf using simulators these days, including using Toptracer ranges etc. it’s a relevant part of the game and a growing market, so if you have some of the best players in the world competing against each other, why can’t that have a bearing in how good they are?

 

[wjemather]

If you can't see the difference and why it makes a difference then there is little point in continuing the conversation

The idea that either actually matters or compromises the accuracy of a fundamentally flawed ranking system is nonsense. However, not trying at all makes more of a difference than two-putting by lagging a putt with an extremely low percentage chance of making.

 

[Mel Smooth]

From what I’ve read and seen at the events on tv etc.
They seem to have kids zones at events which in my opinion is important as they are the next generation to play the game and the team aspect appeals to kids as well.

Here’s my views on this.
The shorter format is much more spectator friendly - whether that’s live at the event or watching the feed.
There are multiple world class players on the course at the same time, so pretty much every group has a star player.
The tour takes ALL those players across the globe.
The series clearly appeals to younger fans, the team aspect IS part of that.
The production is much more focussed on the visuals and audio, the music around the course isn’t blaring as some think, it’s there in the background and provides a nice, chilled vibe - both myself and Jamie commented on this when we were at Centurion.
The shorter format also allows the event to accommodate weather delays without overrunning and being shortened - as we’ve just witnessed at the weekend.
The big one for me though is the events being streamed on multiple platforms, it’s incredibly easy to watch, regardless of which device you have at hand. I appreciate that could change over time, but at the moment it’s a genuine plus point to LIV.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I know it is, a lot of golfers play golf using simulators these days, including using Toptracer ranges etc. it’s a relevant part of the game and a growing market, so if you have some of the best players in the world competing against each other, why can’t that have a bearing in how good they are?

Wow. Even with your standards. Double wow. As Sweden won't qualify for the Euro's on the pitch, let's hope there are equal progressives as yourself making the decisions in UEFA. Hopefully we can still qualify if we win a playoff match on FIFA Playstation.

 

[doublebogey7]

They will still come to an agreement to get LIV players in, it just won’t be via an outdated world ranking system.

Just repeating the same thing is not going to make it happen. Be much more productive if you were to engage with the aruments. You my friend are nothing more than a troll.

 

[Mel Smooth]

Wow. Even with your standards. Double wow. As Sweden won't qualify for the Euro's on the pitch, let's hope there are equal progressives as yourself making the decisions in UEFA. Hopefully we can still qualify if we win a playoff match on FIFA Playstation.

Imagine this.

I’m trying to promote a discussion on why the OWGR system is totally inflexible (apart from when it suits them of course..)

Do I think TMRW should get world ranking points,… No I don’t, based on what I know about it.
Should it be part of the discussion on modernising the game of golf. Yes, Absolutely

 

[Mel Smooth]

Just repeating the same thing is not going to make it happen. Be much more productive if you were to engage with the aruments. You my friend are nothing more than a troll.

I’ve engaged with lots of discussion on here today buddy. Trying to call me out as a troll for presenting counter arguments is pretty poor form tbh.

 

[doublebogey7]

I agree it's a load of nothing, but not for that reason.

Even if LIV did get points, they would be so low (because of their field size) that players would have little chance of ranking high enough for major exemptions anyway. They would still require specific criteria (like the PGAT and DPWT) to get in without qualifying or getting special invites, unless there was a substantial change in how OWGR calculates and allocates points (those limited field PGAT events may prove to be a catalyst for that if regular events end up getting more points).

Additionally, the OWGR has never done a great job of ranking anyone outside the very top of the game. After its update last year, more than ever, it's a system that excessively favours playing certain tournaments and tours.

It simply doesn't, it awards the points on the basis of the rankings of thoes taking part in any gven event. Yes the PGAT has the best players so they gain from the change from the old ranking system, which gave some events on other tours more points than the World Ranking of competitors warranted. Like you and I am not keen on the changes they have made because it all but guarantees the dominance of the PGAT players in the rankings but it is difficult to argue that it was not the right move for everyone.

 

[AussieKB]

Maybe stop calling it the WORLD Ranking System and call it the the PGA Ranking System would be a start

 

[doublebogey7]

I’ve engaged with lots of discussion on here today buddy. Trying to call me out as a troll for presenting counter arguments is pretty poor form tbh.

I was replying to a specific statement, which was a repeat what you have made many times over tue last 12 months and which is yet to come true. So if you can back up that statement please tell me why you think the Majors will change their entry criteria to favour LiV. Yes you have said why they should but not why they will, unless of course I've missed it.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Imagine this.

I’m trying to promote a discussion on why the OWGR system is totally inflexible (apart from when it suits them of course..)

Do I think TMRW should get world ranking points,… No I don’t, based on what I know about it.
Should it be part of the discussion on modernising the game of golf. Yes, Absolutely

Nah. You're on a wind up. It can't be anything else, so I'll leave you to it.

 

[Beezerk]

Wow, looks like LiverpoolPhil has hacked a load of anti LIV accounts

 

[SteveW86]

Here’s my views on this.
The shorter format is much more spectator friendly - whether that’s live at the event or watching the feed.
There are multiple world class players on the course at the same time, so pretty much every group has a star player.
The tour takes ALL those players across the globe.
The series clearly appeals to younger fans, the team aspect IS part of that.
The production is much more focussed on the visuals and audio, the music around the course isn’t blaring as some think, it’s there in the background and provides a nice, chilled vibe - both myself and Jamie commented on this when we were at Centurion.
The shorter format also allows the event to accommodate weather delays without overrunning and being shortened - as we’ve just witnessed at the weekend.
The big one for me though is the events being streamed on multiple platforms, it’s incredibly easy to watch, regardless of which device you have at hand. I appreciate that could change over time, but at the moment it’s a genuine plus point to LIV.

Now I can understand a lot of the points you are making, I can see the appeal of an improved atmosphere on site at a tournament for sure. This is far easier to do when you have 14 events in a year, rather than 1 every week though.

Yes, there are multiple world class players on the course at the same time, as there are in a PGA Tour event. This would be a really strong argument for LIV if they had attracted more standout names, but as it is we are only really talking about 5 or 6 real standout names from a field of 48.

Without the arrogant attitude that they would get their own way, I think LIV could have been a really positive thing to move golf forward for the next generation. But that isnt what has happened and they will need to accept it.

 

[wjemather]

It simply doesn't, it awards the points on the basis of the rankings of thoes taking part in any gven event. Yes the PGAT has the best players so they gain from the change from the old ranking system, which gave some events on other tours more points than the World Ranking of competitors warranted. Like you and I am not keen on the changes they have made because it all but guarantees the dominance of the PGAT players in the rankings but it is difficult to argue that it was not the right move for everyone.

The new system isn't based on the rankings of players at all. It's based on "strokes gained world rating" which is then converted to performance points and totalled to produce the field rating. The total points are then (usually) distributed among those making the cut, based on finishing position.
To illustrate the lunacy, at the Dunhill Links, the world number 390 was the fourth highest contributor to the overall field rating, contributing only fractionally less then world number 32 and 3x the number of points as world number 89; the world number 173 also contributed more than the world number 49. And then they significantly exceeded the total field rating in distributing points to almost everyone because there was no cut.

 

[Mel Smooth]

I was replying to a specific statement, which was a repeat what you have made many times over tue last 12 months and which is yet to come true. So if you can back up that statement please tell me why you think the Majors will change their entry criteria to favour LiV. Yes you have said why they should but not why they will, unless of course I've missed it.

That the majors will make sure they have a system in place to keep the best players in their events?

They will, infact haven’t a few of them already made statements that confirm that?

 

[Dando]

Come on - golf is changing! Don't be a dinosaur. I'm eagerly awaiting my first OWGR points from my local club's monthly Top Tracer Challenge!!! #GrowTheGame

only if you are wearing shorts!